So a buddy is offering me a Datsun Roadster cheap - HOWEVER the title matches the removeable Datsun steel plate but not the stamped letters/number on the frame.
Is this going to be a headache should I want to sell it? Some Datsun parts guy in Wisconsin used to own a bunch of these and would move this plate and Wisconsin plates to whichever beater was running.
And this car I am looking at IS a beater. What say you dudes?
In reply to Datsun1500:
yeah, you're telling me what I already know and don't want to hear......
The frame on my Spitfire doesn't match the shell or engine numbers. I'm not even sure which one the dash plate belongs too.
Walk away.
In reply to Wayslow:
There are numbers on the frame of a Spitfire?
In reply to 93EXCivic: I can't recall. My point being I had legal ownership to three different Spitfires. The dashplate came from one of them and that's the one it's registered as.
Here, I could easily get away with it on historical tags. Generally not a problem selling to like minded individuals.
When cars get that old most people (LEO) do not look that hard, go for it.
It happens all the time, but I'm not that lucky so I'd walk away - people do get caught out on this sort of thing.
stuart in mn wrote: It happens all the time, but I'm not that lucky so I'd walk away - people do get caught out on this sort of thing.
So you say it's a classic and went through a restoration. Frames rust in mn and the frame was swapped due to rust. That happens all the time in Chevelles. Wonder how many of those match.
Wayslow wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: I can't recall. My point being I had legal ownership to three different Spitfires. The dashplate came from one of them and that's the one it's registered as.
On Spitfires, the body number, engine number, and VIN do not match. They are usually close though. I do not recall them having a chassis number. I have no idea about Datsuns.
spitfirebill wrote:Wayslow wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: I can't recall. My point being I had legal ownership to three different Spitfires. The dashplate came from one of them and that's the one it's registered as.On Spitfires, the body number, engine number, and VIN do not match. They are usually close though. I do not recall them having a chassis number. I have no idea about Datsuns.
On my Spitfire ('64), I only know of the commission number on the left front under the back part of the hood.
I think the real question is, is the title supposed to go with the frame or the body in cars that are body on frame? Cause frame swaps are fairly common on a lot of cars.
In the twenty or thirty cars that I've bought and sold over the years, I have never had anyone actually physically check the VIN or any other number on the cars.
It also depends state to state in Alabama no one would care cause there are no titles on cars pre-75.
For the record a spit does have a vin stamped on one of the frame outriggers. Or my gt6 does. But you would have to life the body off to see it. I just can't see an official going to the work of looking for a frame vin unless he had a very good reason.
Datsun1500 wrote: Arizona checks the VIN on any cars brought from out of State....
I can believe that, but as noted, I am sure they are looking at the VIN on the tag (which is correct) not the hidden body VIN.
I find it hard to believe the DMV even knows where the hidden body VIN is on every car (e.g. It's behind the right front suspension under any undercoating on a late Corvair)
Realistically, having a swapped body really will likely only be an issue if the car is a high dollar collectible or restoration.
Triumph didn't start using VIN numbers until 1979, and by then the GT6 had been out of production for many years.
I've never seen a VIN number stamped on any Spitfire or GT6 frame, and I've a number of them sitting out back.
Triumph did place a second VIN sticker on the body tubs of 1980 Spitfires. It's in the trunk lip well, usually on the right hand side. I've seen that before, and happen to have one that has it there still.
I wouldn't worry about it. In Illinois, I did a trailer title transfer from Missouri, and they did not look at the trailer at all. The trailer was actually 120 miles away from the DMV at that time. On the Volvo, when I went to get the title, the car was 10 miles away (although this was a purchase from an in-town resident).
foxtrapper wrote: Triumph didn't start using VIN numbers until 1979, and by then the GT6 had been out of production for many years...
I think the English cars are a bit lax on the whole VIN thing.
A friend of mine is into MG and Midgets and you can openly (Moss Motors I believe) get a VIN tag reproduced for them! (I am guessing they put whatever number you want on it)
In Missouri it is a felony to knowingly possess a vehicle with a VIN that is modified or tampered with, weather it be the plate around the windshield, the frame, or the motor. Don't walk. Run away.
Anyone gonna check? Doubtful.
Well I guess we are splitting frog hairs again, but Triumphs did have a VIN before 1979. They were not the 17 digit VIN that was manadated with country of origin etc in 1981, but my 1964 Spitty has a Vehicle Identification Number. Its FC34xxx. And on a Spitfire, none of the ID numbers etched or embossed into or onto the frame, transmission, engine, or differential are likely to match the number on the plate. The number on the plate is what goes on the title. My understanding is taht once the current VIN system came about, the numbers all match. Even with muscle cars, you need a build sheet to verify whether its "numbers matching".
Here in SC, I consider a car with no VIN to be a parts car and it isn't going to sit on my property for long (if at all).
N Sperlo wrote: In Missouri it is a felony to knowingly possess a vehicle with a VIN that is modified or tampered with, weather it be the plate around the windshield, the frame, or the motor. Don't walk. Run away. Anyone gonna check? Doubtful.
"I had no idea that the numbers did not match"
Seriously, this matters for a 2002 Honda. It does not for a 50 year old Datsun.
Before 1981, VIN's were all over the place on cars, the number of digits and their meaning varied and there was no way to have vehicle information coded into the VIN so that engines culd be easily identified. In 1981 the 17 digit VIN was made standard and its location was roughly the same for all manufacturers.
My street Jensen Healey has the VIN on a riveted aluminum plate inside the drivers door, another one under the bonnet and also on a steel tag that's welded to the driver's seat front mounting crossmember. That means it was covered by the carpet, making it unlikely a thief would know where it was. I bought the car out of North Carolina and had to get a SC title, the DMV never asked a thing and didn't even want to see the car. The race car still has the riveted plate inside the drivers door but the seat crossmember was removed, taking the 'backup' VIN with it.
A 64 Spitfire had a commission number, that identified the car, and was frequently (but not always) used as a vehicle identification number in the US. VIN has a very specific meaning to MVA type people. Blurring it with the commission number can result in paperwork gridlock. I've seen it before with LBCs. Almost as bad as the vague model year games played with dealerships in the US and earlier models.
foxtrapper wrote: A 64 Spitfire had a commission number, that identified the car, and was frequently (but not always) used as a vehicle identification number in the US. VIN has a very specific meaning to MVA type people. Blurring it with the commission number can result in paperwork gridlock. I've seen it before with LBCs. Almost as bad as the vague model year games played with dealerships in the US and earlier models.
Dad had an Austin Healey that the Vin suggested it was a 57, was titled a 59, and the original dealer paperwork said 58.
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