Dear parents of unruly children:

Perhaps Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar have convinced you that the proper way to address out-of-control behavior from your children is to simply ignore it. They'll just up and grow out of it eventually, right? Wrong.

Hint: The proper thing to do when you see your child plastering its greasy face, fingers, etc. on the recently cleaned outside glass of a retail business, is to smack it on the back of the head. Then briefly explain why you smacked it on the back of the head: "Someone cleaned those windows. Now they'll have to clean them again. That's incredibly rude. Don't do it again."

The improper thing to do is to beg your mushy-headed air consumer to change its behavior by saying things like "Please stop that. Please? If you stop doing that, mommy will get you an ice cream cone. Please don't do that. Now what did mommy say? Please stop. You're upsetting mommy. Why do you want mommy to be upset? Don't you love me? I'll get you anything you want if you stop."

Sack up and berkeleying take control, pansies.

Thanks,

the management.

My kids have had enough ass beatings that now I just have to raise my hand when they're acting like a fool, and that stops it pretty quick.

Do you have kids? :)

Well we all know how Whoopi and Joy turned out so we know they know what they are talking about.

If you can't control your kids when they are little what hope do you have once they reach their teens?

Nip it in the bud.

CivicSiRacer wrote: Do you have kids? :)

Nope. And that's certainly a relevant question. But I am someone's kid, and I knew very early on what was acceptable and unacceptable behavior, especially in public. I knew if I was told to stop doing something, and didn't stop, there would be immediate, unpleasant consequences.

I've also seen both ends of the spectrum in my own friends and family. Some discipline their kids. Some don't. Guess which ones are politely asked not to bring their out of control kids in my shop?

Anyway, it was just a rant. It's really frustrating when you spend all morning tidying up your business in anticipation of lots of eyes, feet, and wallets coming through the door, only to have some looky-lou's kid finger berkeley everything in sight.

Amen brother.

I HATE other peoples children as a rule but my buddy's kids are well behaved.

I don't mind going to restaurants with them or taking them anywhere.

Want to know why?

The discipline described above has been applied by both parents and the kids (ages 5 and 7) know what's acceptable behaviour and what isn't.

My parents used the same system with me and it worked great.

Shawn

I have never raised a hand to my children unless they were in danger and they are the best behaved kids I know. Others' in my family do use physical discipline and their kids are awful. With my children, 9 times out of 10, I can see the tantrum or misbehavior coming and intervene before it has a chance to manifest itself. A lot of parents attempt to parent this way but end up being overly permissive, and this is what I assume the mother in question was doing.

Hitting a child is not the only way to deal with unacceptable behavior.

You also have to take other factors into consideration; How old was the child? Did the child have a developmental delay or other neurological defect that makes it hard for them to do what is "acceptable"?

I teach highschool shop to other people's children, and I am always highly motivated to spend time with my own kids. And the most important years are the first ones - by the time a kids gets to me in grade 8, the damage has been done and there's nothing I can do to change the kid's behaviour due to the lenient and enabling parents.

I lead my kids in the way they should go. I don't let them be the parent. As they get older I give them more freedom, but I will not let them get away with poor behaviour, and I always make them take responsibility for their actions and apologize/repair/make-restitution/whatever when they do wrong. They must always say please and thank you, and if they cannot behave, they cannot be here. I will not bargain or beg - I am the parent. It is not my job to be their friend. My eldest is as stubborn as I am, and has as volatile a temper as I did at his age - it's easier for me to distance myself emotionally, blame it on genetics, and deal with the issue ("I asked you to do something and you did not do it. When I ask you to do something, you need to do it - I am not giving you a choice. You can come out of your room when you are ready to do what I ask you to do. No, you did not do what I asked you to do - I'm putting you back in your room until you are ready to do what I asked you to do. Thank you for doing what I asked you to do, I really like it when you do what I ask you to do.").

Sometimes the kids get a spanking, sometimes they get a firm talking to, sometimes they are removed from the situation until they are ready to try again. I never promise or threaten anything I am not willing to follow up on, and I always follow up on everything I promise or threaten. My kids are 2-1/2 and 4, and my wife and I get a lot of compliments from people on how well behaved our kids are. My wife is much more compassionate than I am (which is very very good), but we are both on the same page with how we deal with our kids.

Whenever I go to a store, as soon as one of the kids start reaching for anything, I'm quick with a "no, you cannot touch - that is not ours. We cannot touch it if it's not ours. We can ask 'may I touch this please?' and if they say 'yes' then we can touch it, but if they say 'no' then we cannot touch it because it's not ours, buit we have to ask first." Generally the kids are pretty good about this. Sometimes we go back to the car until they are ready to try again, sometimes we go home and do not shop at all.

Setting the tone and expectation early in life saves a LOT of grief later on. You gotta pour your heart into your kids right from the get-go, and model what you want your kids to grow into. They will copy you; they are in their apprenticeship stage. The apple never falls far from the tree. When I have to deal with a difficult student, usually once I meet the parent I usually discover the kid's not that bad after all.

But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong.

G

SkinnyG wrote: I lead my kids in the way they should go. I don't let them be the parent. As they get older I give them more freedom, but I will not let them get away with poor behaviour, and I always make them take responsibility for their actions and apologize/repair/make-restitution/whatever when they do wrong. They must always say please and thank you, and if they cannot behave, they cannot be here. I will not bargain or beg - I am the parent. It is not my job to be their friend. My eldest is as stubborn as I am, and has as volatile a temper as I did at his age - it's easier for me to distance myself emotionally, blame it on genetics, and deal with the issue ("I asked you to do something and you did not do it. When I ask you to do something, you need to do it - I am not giving you a choice. You can come out of your room when you are ready to do what I ask you to do. No, you did not do what I asked you to do - I'm putting you back in your room until you are ready to do what I asked you to do. Thank you for doing what I asked you to do, I really like it when you do what I ask you to do."). Sometimes the kids get a spanking, sometimes they get a firm talking to, sometimes they are removed from the situation until they are ready to try again. I never promise or threaten anything I am not willing to follow up on, and I always follow up on everything I promise or threaten. My kids are 2-1/2 and 4, and my wife and I get a lot of compliments from people on how well behaved our kids are. My wife is much more compassionate than I am (which is very very good), but we are both on the same page with how we deal with our kids. Whenever I go to a store, as soon as one of the kids start reaching for anything, I'm quick with a "no, you cannot touch - that is not ours. We cannot touch it if it's not ours. We can ask 'may I touch this please?' and if they say 'yes' then we can touch it, but if they say 'no' then we cannot touch it because it's not ours, buit we have to ask first." Generally the kids are pretty good about this. Sometimes we go back to the car until they are ready to try again, sometimes we go home and do not shop at all. Setting the tone and expectation early in life saves a LOT of grief later on. You gotta pour your heart into your kids right from the get-go, and model what you want your kids to grow into. They will copy you; they are in their apprenticeship stage. The apple never falls far from the tree. When I have to deal with a difficult student, usually once I meet the parent I usually discover the kid's not that bad after all. But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong. G

YES! Minus the spanking this is exactly how things are handled around here!

We don't have kids. Never saw the appeal. We do have dogs. I think most parents could learn a lot from this dude: Being a pack leader isn't just for canines.

somebody told me to win every single argument when they are three, four, five, six years old........so when they are sixteen, seventeen........you win most of them.

let them win the arguments at an early age and you are doomed.

Proverbs has a lot about sparing the rod and spoiling the child.................

So I sent a link to this thread to my friend who has 3 really great kids (most days).

Here was her response:

"I'd like to write in and say that I agree 100% with the words that follow the controversial head-thump. It's really important to teach the kids empathy - how would YOU feel if you worked really hard to clean something and somebody came in and messed it all up?

Usually reminding my kids of other people's feelings is enough to remind them that they are not the center of the universe. But I'm not above a butt swat for willful defiance or blatant disrespect."

ddavidv wrote: We don't have kids. Never saw the appeal. We do have dogs. I think most parents could learn a lot from this dude: Being a pack leader isn't just for canines.

Did you see the episode of Southpark where he came to train Cartman? It was great.

At my bike shop we have one of those Open signs with a place to put store hours or a message. One day I decided to put the message "Please don't lick the window" after watching a little two year old girl who wanted to come in so bad after we had closed that she stood there licking the window while both her parents watched.

Alright, as one with grown kids. One of which came back and thanked her mom & I for how we raised her. I can say you must get the kids attention and they have to know your serious when disciplining them. Nothing more than what it takes to do that, whether it's telling them no or giving them a swat. Anything more than what it takes is abuse. If it takes one swat or 10 swats you stop when you have their attention and they know you're serious. If all it takes is tell them no then that's all it takes. I agree you have to explain why they don't do something, if they understand why then they are less likely to do that. Yeah I've made trip to the car or went home without shopping when they were younger but they behaved in public and respectful to others. Now that they are grown, they carry that respect for others with them. And I was the nice one, their mom was harder on them.

But then again they were military brats.

"Unattended children will be given an espresso and a free puppy, and sent on their way." -The Management.

As a child, my parents never hit me. I was always polite and I did what I was told (for the most part). Of course, that was not automatic... They were just really good at making me feel bad for things that I did that pissed them off (or pissed other people off).

Not to say some kids don't need a smack in the back of the head from time to time. This was how my flight instructor taught me. And it's how I tried to get my HPDE instructors to teach me.

But punishing bad behavior by offering a "treat" if they stop only makes them act out even more. Reasons for this should be obvious.

I use the tone of my voice on my 4yr daughter. It works great and it turns out she hates to stare at the wall ( that she has not drawn on). So I normally use the tone of my voice then it time out, stare at the wall. Its not every often that I hear bad things about my kid from the sitter and I aways ask how she was ect... But there days when she dose act up for the sitter and they do tell. Most of the time she's acting bossy. O' and offering them a treat to act better, hell no! If she act up my I tell I am gona take movie/video games/ broad games away.

there my $0.02

The actual child is a factor in this, if I was not physically chastised I would have been a different person, I hopefully think I am better for this, yet my son is 15 an honors student, polite, smart and surrounded with a great group of friends, we are proud of him and have never had to actually strike him.

What worked for him would not have worked for me.

EastCoastMojo wrote: watching a little two year old girl who wanted to come in so bad after we had closed that she stood there licking the window while both her parents watched.

Should've given said window a good, solid thump from the inside when the girl was mid-lick.

Parents; Please hit your kids, for the good of the children.

Shawn

I've got 4. They know where the line is and what the consequences are when they cross it. To get a full fledged spanking they have to be way past the line or on the second or third offense. My two youngest were bickering back and forth all morning. We discussed it, they kept on. They were separated for a time, and started back at it. Next they got to sit by me quietly while I was reading for an hour with no toys or distractions and contemplate their behavior and why it wasn't acceptable. That did the trick, but they knew the next step was a tail warming. If the line is consistent, children will learn what is acceptable and what is not. If the line keeps moving, they will never learn. Your can't be best buddy one minuet and parent the next. If you aren't parent all the time, you will confuse them.

If you don't have kids and giving advice on how to raise them you are THAT GUY. You know... the one who read a lot of books on boxing so he knows how to beat Mike Tyson. STFU. You are making an ass of yourself.

Our first child (a little boy) is due any time within the next 2 weeks. Honestly, I'm a little nervous, but I think one of the most important things we've done is to talk about what we're going to do to teach our kids. We're on the same page and I think that's the most important step. We'll have a little time before he will have the ability to misbehave. So you can bet that if he's licking a window any time in the near future it's because I'm holding up so he can do it and I'll be laugh my self silly while my wife rolls her eyes.

"If a kid gets out of line I've got no problem smackin' 'em in the head" -Jack Black, School of Rock

I hate going out to eat now because of screaming kids who are waiting on the prerequisite count of 3 for the 5th time to stop screaming.

I pulled out in time. I should not have to listen to you little brats because you were a two pump chump.

I am not a parent, but I am an observer of other people...sometimes I point and criticize...I am working on that, but as a pretty ok kid who turned into a pretty ok adult, and as an employee of retail places, and frequent restaurant visitor, I have a few comments:

• walterj...you sound like an idiot...Im just saying...
• I worked at a bike shop for 5 years, and saw every bad parenting tool imaginable - kids running wild while dads on his bluetooth blackberry - kids climbing on displays while mom is asking politely (to no effect) for them to stop - even watched a child climb up a bike on a rack 4 feet off the ground, when the whole thing came down (kid and all) and the bike got royally effed, the parent tried to say WE were negligent for not having better racks, despite 6 signs throughout the store to not climb on bikes in the racks and 2 other signs asking parents to monitor their children. I thought dad was gonna have a coronary when my boss told him he was responsible for repairing the $1k road bike...and he was. Anyone who says otherwise is a jack_ss and Id like to have that conversation separately, perhaps outside?
• Im sick of watching kids in restaurants run throught the restaurant and jump up and down in the booth, make noises, make messes, stare at people and be generally rude while dads on his toolberry and mom drinks her 3rd mojito to help numb the agony.

basically, parents need to realize this (a lesson I learned from 6 generations of my family in the states with 0 divorces): Kids are not a trophy you get for successfully getting married and then get put on the shelf only to be admired ocasionally when friends are over for drinks. Children become your first and most critical priority. You no longer have the right to walk away from anything - your marriage, job, responsibilities etc - your only reason to live now is to make them better than yourself. You have given up your rights to poker night if theres baseball practice, youve given up your yoga classes because of their flu, youve given up your ability to eat out 4 nights of the week because family time is far more important. You have made a life, and you have made a choice to devote yourself 100% to that new being. You are now their provider, teacher, boss, and friend, in that order. Too many parents think their kids will raise themselves because we give them discovery channel, barney, and public schools to raise them and teach them right and wrong. And too many parents think its ok to work 70+ hour workweeks so we can get that 3900 sq/ft house in the expensive neighborhood and a benz and a dyson and 5 bathrooms and a separate guest house out back while our kids go to the crapper cuz we're just not there. My wife and I are trying to get pregnant (fun ) and these are little lessons Ive been reminding myself. Im not getting any younger, Im almost 30 and many of my friends already have multiple tots running around. Im probably never going to own a racecar (other than a DD setup for auto-x), I will never be a professional BMX-er. I have to accept that. If I am going to be a dad, I will never be any of those things that I havent yet become because I am going to have to give all of myself for at least the next 18 years to making the world a little better through reproduction. If you cant deal with or accept any of the above, then you cannot be an effective parent, and condoms are inexpensive. If you cannot accept the above, and still have a child, then you are partially responsible for the current craphole the world is becoming, and deserve a punch in the trachea.

whew...breathe...sigh...breathe...

/rant