Dear parents of unruly children:

Jake wrote: The toddler, though- he doesn't speak English much yet (he's learning), so he's in terrible two mode. Screaming, hitting, and other unacceptable behavior is his way of expressing himself- so guess what? We don't go much of anywhere. He had colic the first 6 months of his life, and so our nerves are pretty much shot any time he starts in with the shrieking, I guess we're trained. We gotta get some words in that kid so he doesn't act out on pure frustration. We're trying hard not to just sequester ourselves at home, but we generally don't even consider inflicting the wildman on the world.

2 words: sign language. Babes and toddlers pick it up quickly and you will be amazed at how easy it is for you, too. It also makes communicating in busy/loud places MUCH easier. I can look at my children from across the room and sign "no hit" or "all done" or anything else that may be appropriate and they get it. Both of my kids have hearing loss and speech delays, so, for us it was essential, and I have seen it do amazing things for hearing families, too.
.

Oh. And re: corporal punishment- we've done it. Doesn't seem to help anything, only makes me feel guilty- I'm a 250# grown man, what am I doing beating up on a baby? If it's called for, I can definitely administer the whoopin', but then I'll get the kids in to mom and go try not to cry about it.

The above statement bears repeating. Just because you are the adult does not give you the "right" to hit your child for any reason, punishment included. Honestly, what does it teach them other than fear and that hitting IS ok, if you are an adult. IMO, children should not fear their parents (or the punishment), but they should have a healthy amount of respect for what the parents rules are.

carguy123 wrote: Mark I see your Barney avatar. Is that your kid finally getting to see the purple guy? My son played Shawn on the show for 5 seasons so I saw a lot of those scenes

Oddly enough, Barney is the only costumed character that doesn't scare her. Makes trips to Disney World and other places "interesting". The Barney Show at Universal is always a must for my kids, even the oldest ones. We used to watch it together while they were growing up, they still remember most of the kids' names. Before kids, I couldn't stand Barney. Now and after watching the shows with them... he's pretty cool, teaches good values, manners and how to interact with others. I always made a point of telling the kids how "cool" it was.

I don't and never have beat my kids. A spanking is not a beating, it's a warm spot on their butt to remind them of the consequences. I consider all of them too old(9 year old and twin 6 year olds) for a spank, since they're now old enough to listen to reason and understand. I just have to keep it short and on their level. Now, they get time outs(works even with the 9 year old), loss of tube time(which isn't much to begin with), and they get grounded.

My youngest son, half of the twins, is the wild child. If we had had the twins first, that would have been it. I have enough tools in the garage to take care of a "fix". Anyway, I deal with him differently than I do with the others, though they all get the same punishments. He's been diagnosed as an Indigo Child, similar to add/adhd. I love him to death, but he can be a handful... gives the biggest hugs, causes the biggest problems. I guess they go hand and hand. He can't handle large crowds, loud noises and likes a set routine. So, we work around that, rather than try to "cookie cutter" his behavior.

All in all, I think everyone here does the best they can with the experience they have, what they believe, and for what they want for results from their kids. I just want mine to be better people than I am.

Mark

I'm pretty sure they remember Shawn... I'll have to ask, they're the experts.

Vasectomy appointment made!

I have not and never will advocate beating a child. To strike a child with a fist is the mark of an immature parent. That does not mean that when a child gets out of line and after all else has failed there shouldn't be a swat or two across the bottom.

When my daughter was very young (~2 years old), the house we lived in had a loft which had stairs to it. This was the relaxation and rumpus room so it got a lot of use. Since it did not have a door, we put up a child gate at the top of the stairs. She would go over and rattle it, we told her several times not to, including stern warnings of dire consequences. It seemed to become a game to her. She then tried to climb over it.

Had she succeeded, very likely this tale would have had a completely different outcome. As it was, I grabbed her before she could get on top of it and told her 'one more time and you get a spanking'. (She knew what spankings were, just had never had one.) The next day she tried it again, I guess she thought I'd forgotten. I grabbed her off of the gate and spanked her. Man, I hated that but dammit I hated the idea of her in the hospital worse! She bawled her head off but never tried it again.

Then a few months later she bit me and that got her a spanking. It seems many kids go through a biting stage but I was not having any of that. She never bit me or anyone else again. Her mom spanked her once when she was around 4 years old, that's the only 3 she's ever gotten.

I guess we are lucky, overall she's been great. Like all kids there's ups and downs but she has a good sense of right and wrong and how to treat people.

If I have children I will also try to aviod striking them, becuase I do agree its poor parenting.

....but, your kids, well I ain't their parent, I'll beat the crap out of your kids...

(stop typing the angry reply, I am kidding)

Mental wrote: If I have children I will also try to aviod striking them, becuase I do agree its poor parenting. ....but, your kids, well I ain't their parent, I'll beat the crap out of your kids... (stop typing the angry reply, I am kidding)

Dammit, I just snorted root beer out of my nose! Just struck me as funny as heell, mainly,because it does strike a chord. I know it's not me, but also most of my employees who have children, but... sometimes we just can't stand the way some children act in public. You'd think we'd have more patience, but... nope.

Of course, we realize, being the experts that we are, that it's not the child's fault, but the lack of parenting. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to do a Code Adam... some parents are useless.

If anyone's looking for a free vasectomy kit, I'm sure I could devise one from parts in the garage;).

Mark

walterj wrote: If you don't have kids and giving advice on how to raise them you are THAT GUY. You know... the one who read a lot of books on boxing so he knows how to beat Mike Tyson. STFU. You are making an ass of yourself.

Don't have my own, but worked in a residential child care facility. I Worked 45-50 hours a week with children who were not able to function in a home setting. I had no choice but to get good at non-physical parenting... But I also had to get VERY good an therapeutic restraints - where you keep the child from hurting themselves or others, while not hurting them.

I spent more time with those kids than many parents spend with their own. I also then spent time teaching those techniques to parents, and in almost every case, the parents found that not only did their parenting skills improve, but they had better relationships with their children.

I don't need to tell anyone this, but there is a huge difference between beating your child and smacking them on the butt. That was my folk's rule- no smacks anywhere but the butt (fatty and won't cause damage). Now the trick, as some have put it, is to make an impression. If you smack your kid for every little problem pretty soon it loses its cache. They need to fear the smack more than the actual smack. It's the very idea of it that has to enter their head when they think about doing something bad. It's the same as yelling at them all the time.

Anywho- I have my own tale about a "home (depot) improvement" store employee butting into my business: #1 child (about 3.5 yrs at the time) is acting up in a BIG way while I'm trying to get some stuff. I pull him to the side of the aisle by the upper arm, which I am gripping firmly. Then, through gritted teeth I tell him that his behavior is unacceptable and inappropriate for the situation, and that there would be consequences for this if he were to keep it up (my conscious mind is simultaneously suppressing the strangle reflex) when an employee of the aforementioned establishment approaches and asks "is everything allright sir" as if to say- knock it off or I'm reporting you.
Yes. Everythings just fine.

If that were me with my father he would have removed me quietly and assertively from the store and behind his '55 chevy flatbed, pulled down my pants and spanked me. It's just the right thing to do. It's the most basic tenant of leadership- praise publicly and reprimand privately.

Oh, and children aren't reasonable- that is to say that they don't understand reason for a long, long time. So instead of trying to work with them at their level (creating a child that will always be a child, expecting the rest of the world to work with them at their level), they have to grow to work with you at your level, making them well adjusted adults who can function in a world that doesn't care about their hurt feelings or their immediate wants/needs.

I've been in retail for 15 years and thus, I have zero desire to have children.

Hayden, Brayden and Kayden have all grown up being deified while never hearing the word "no".

Their parents compete to find a larger pedestal to put them on.

The only "want" in their lives is the time that passes in between asking for something and then receiving it.

The state of parenthood at the moment is atrocious.

Brust wrote: I don't need to tell anyone this, but there is a huge difference between beating your child and smacking them on the butt.... If you smack your kid for every little problem pretty soon it loses its cache. They need to fear the smack more than the actual smack. It's the very idea of it that has to enter their head when they think about doing something bad.

=truth

people who say "blah blah never strike your child...its abuse no matter what...its wrong...your spankings will turn them into a neo nazi fascist hate mongering sociopath...swatting your brat on the behind makes you the devil... .blah blah I never struck my child and he/she/it () is an honor student and an eagle scout and cured cancer and can fly, and its all because of my stellar parenting skills." are really saying " LOOK AT ME... IM A SHINY HAPPY E36M3-HEAD"

4cylndrfury wrote:

Brust wrote: I don't need to tell anyone this, but there is a huge difference between beating your child and smacking them on the butt.... If you smack your kid for every little problem pretty soon it loses its cache. They need to fear the smack more than the actual smack. It's the very idea of it that has to enter their head when they think about doing something bad.

=truth people who say "blah blah never strike your child...its abuse no matter what...its wrong...your spankings will turn them into a neo nazi fascist hate mongering sociopath...swatting your brat on the behind makes you the devil... .blah blah I never struck my child and he/she/it () is an honor student and an eagle scout and cured cancer and can fly, and its all because of my stellar parenting skills." are really saying " LOOK AT ME... IM A SHINY HAPPY E36M3-HEAD"

I turned out to be a reclusive hate-mongering weirdo, if that counts for anything...and it sure couldn't have been a lack of physical punishment...

These threads about parenting on a car forum crack me up. Especially all the expert advice from people with no kids. I will agree that until you have kids, you really just don't know what's involved with parenting them. Yeah, I know, "my sister has five kids", "my wife is a teacher and is around kids of all parenting styles", etc are great points (and both are true for me BTW), but until you are in it you'll be surprised at how little you thought you knew. Our son is 1.5 and my wife and I were talking about how we are "those" parents who let our kid run around in the restaurant a bit at the end of his meal. We say "those" parents because we remember seeing them when were single and thinking poorly of them. We obviously discipline him in various ways and don't just let him behave badly, but letting him run around some at family restaurants to burn off some of his tons of energy is just not a big deal (to us or 90% of people that go to places like that). Yeah it probably irritates some 28 year old single genius that's managed to not get anyone pregnant, but who really cares. He's not hurting anybody or anything. I actually remember thinking less of some married friends of mine for something along those lines when I was 28 or so. Now that I've got a kid I realize how ridiculous it was. Perspective changes everything. You also have to realize that it's a lot less distracting once you have kids to have noisy kids around. A child that is banging a toy on the table or blabbering loudly is no where near as bothersome to a parent (who is used to more noise) as to a person who isn't around kids all day. I have seen this with our one kid and I see it with my sister and her 5. My sister is oblivious to sounds that scare me to death. Again different perspective. Of course those who have no parenting experience, but tons of experience watching friends and family can post their expert advice and I'll file it appropriately!

I am glad that those who dislike children so much are so against having them though. It's good for them and the children.

Morbid wrote: 2 words: sign language.

Yep. Great for communicating with your kid when they are way out on the soccer field and other things where there's supposed to be silence and such.

The more my hearing goes, the more I use ASL.

In reply to Clay:

As a father of an 11yo ond a 6 yo..What you said!

GameboyRMH wrote: I turned out to be a reclusive hate-mongering weirdo, if that counts for anything...and it sure couldn't have been a lack of physical punishment...

LOL! That made my morning.

Clay wrote: my wife and I were talking about how we are "those" parents who let our kid run around in the restaurant a bit at the end of his meal... Letting him run around some at family restaurants to burn off some of his tons of energy is just not a big deal (to us or 90% of people that go to places like that).

typical..."its not important to me...so it must not be important to anyone else"

The levels of ideocentricity in people blows my mind

Clay wrote: Yeah it probably irritates some 28 year old single genius that's managed to not get anyone pregnant, but who really cares. He's not hurting anybody or anything.

really???maybe at 29, Im not ready to have kids. Im actually being responsible. My wife and I will have children soon, but weve made decisions together to wait to have kids until the time is right. I know youre never ready to have kids...there is a little jump in head first-ness about having kids, but I dont have my degree yet, and I was a child in a household where one parent was working and attending school, and its not fun for anyone. I will have my degree by ths start of '10, and then we will have kids. Dont point fingers because youre certain im some eternal bachelor who "couldnt possibly understand".

when I hear comments like that, all I hear is: "look at how important I am, I have kids, and I know I am a great parent because I say so. Therefore I am justified in my 'the world revolves around me' attitude that rationalizes my use of a restaurant as a playground for my child. Better they run around here and piss EVERYONE else off, than make a mess at my own house where I have to clean everything up myself. I mean, thats why I can leave my broods mess all over in a place like a restaurant, I mean, they have people to clean up after me...they pay them for it. now excuse me while i go off to shine my shiny happy light all over the place. "

foxtrapper wrote:

Morbid wrote: 2 words: sign language.

Yep. Great for communicating with your kid when they are way out on the soccer field and other things where there's supposed to be silence and such. The more my hearing goes, the more I use ASL.

I'm hoping to teach my kid ASL. He's 5 month old, and they say to start around 6 months. Any suggestions of books on the subject. Considering I don't know how to sign, I better start learning.

4cylfury save your comments until you have experience, seriously. You sound like my 34 year old brother who thinks owning a dog is a huge responsibility..lol..

One day a woman opened up the door to my shop and said to her two children, stay right here and I will be back in a few minutes. She started to head over to the grocery store next door to shop in peace while her two kids ran past me screaming about who was going to get to ride the blue bike first. I stepped outside and said, "Ma'am? I believe you forgot something!" She was very defensive and immediately started yelling at me in front of the store about how "They aren't hurting anything." I just said, as politely as I could, that my rates for babysitting are higher than most.

ManofFewWords wrote: 4cylfury save your comments until you have experience, seriously. You sound like my 34 year old brother who thinks owning a dog is a huge responsibility..lol..

I'm sure i won't be taken seriously here either, only being 23. (almost 24, dammit!)

BUT:

I cannot stand it when kids are running around carrying on in public making a nuisance or annoying me. I may have a shorter fuse for the subject than a lot of people, but everytime my roomate and i go out to eat, and there's rugrats roaming the restaurant in particular screaming, roughhousing, etc.... it puts us both on edge. He has a 1.5 year old, too.

I don't care if i don't have any experience with parenting. I really don't. I DO know that if i go out to eat at a decent restaurant that i should NOT be subject to being affected by other people's children short of getting a little amusement when they scatter their vegetables all over the table they should be sitting at. I don't want them running and screaming by my table. I came here to enjoy my meal.

Same deal for stores. If i WANTED to see or hear it or deal with it, i'd go to the playground, visit a day care center, elementary school, or go to the zoo.

That's just how i feel, how i was raised, and how i will raise my kids. If they can't handle themselves in public, then they won't be going out in public until they're ready to behave. Their lack of control shouldn't affect anyone else but me.

Now, if this scenario was in like... Chucky Cheese or wherever, carry on and pretend i didn't post.

As someone who worked in restaurants when young.... please, please don't let your little ones race around. Do you know how dangerous it is? I've seen waitresses with hot pots of coffee, or bearing platters of food narrowly miss dumping them on kids that materialise out of nowhere. It's none of my business how others raise their kids, unless it affects me... so if your kid is repeatedly throwing rocks at my car, damn right I'm going to have an opinion about that. It's nothing like pets - my psychotic cats are never going to be inflicted on anyone else. But I sure am grateful to those who've raised their children to be decent human beings, since eventually they go out on their own and become part of the populace that we all deal with...

Reading some these comments makes me think that some people get marriage advise from a priest.

sachilles wrote:

foxtrapper wrote:

Morbid wrote: 2 words: sign language.

Yep. Great for communicating with your kid when they are way out on the soccer field and other things where there's supposed to be silence and such. The more my hearing goes, the more I use ASL.

I'm hoping to teach my kid ASL. He's 5 month old, and they say to start around 6 months. Any suggestions of books on the subject. Considering I don't know how to sign, I better start learning.

Start here: http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi nearly every sign in existence is available in video form for you to browse.

As far as teaching, go ahead and start now, to get yourself in the habit. Learn the signs for "play" "milk" "more" and "sleep" and every time you say those words, sign them. "Go" is another good one to have in your arsenal. It will take a bit of time before your child signs back to you (usually around 9-11 months), but keep signing to them. Keep learning new signs, too, as once their "vocabulary" picks up, it will be a bit harder to keep up.

There is a tv series available on dvd called Signing Time that is designed for toddlers, I highly recommend it. You can find it at signingtime.com. Unfortunately it is not available in stores.

2 more things, 1) learn to fingerspell (alphabet) for times when your child is a bit older and you need to discuss something (like going to the park) that you don't want them to hear. 2) Stick with teaching ASL, don't use "baby sign language" or "home signs", as they are not useful in a real world setting. ASL is a tool your child can develop and use throughout their life.

There really aren't any books that I have found to be overly helpful, I found most of the signs we use online.

Hope that helps

Lesley wrote: As someone who worked in restaurants when young.... please, please don't let your little ones race around. Do you know how dangerous it is? I've seen waitresses with hot pots of coffee, or bearing platters of food narrowly miss dumping them on kids that materialise out of nowhere. It's none of my business how others raise their kids, unless it affects me... so if your kid is repeatedly throwing rocks at my car, damn right I'm going to have an opinion about that. It's nothing like pets - my psychotic cats are never going to be inflicted on anyone else. But I sure am grateful to those who've raised their children to be decent human beings, since eventually they go out on their own and become part of the populace that we all deal with...

plus eleventy billion and one

ManofFewWords wrote: 4cylfury save your comments until you have experience, seriously. You sound like my 34 year old brother who thinks owning a dog is a huge responsibility..lol..

I'm 38 and owning a dog is a huge responsibility. man those things eat like 2 times a day, plus of my two don't have a good place to nap like 22 hours a day, I hear about it.

On a side joke, I read an essay about parents accusing pet owners of making them surrogate children. But my dogs behave, never disturb peaple in resturants, never ask to borrow the car or call from jail. All the things you expect from children. I submit parents are using kids as surrogate pets.

Again, just stop with the angry typing...