In reply to SV reX :
And, all of these codes are the bare minimum building standards needed so that stuff doesn't fall down, burn up, or blow away.
In reply to SV reX :
And, all of these codes are the bare minimum building standards needed so that stuff doesn't fall down, burn up, or blow away.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Strange how the historic homes and buildings I've worked in have managed to survive. 🙄
In reply to SV reX :
Wood. Modern wood is so so so so so E36 M3ty that metal brackets-gussets and a bazillion twist-ring-shank-special nail-screws plus all the glue are needed to hold up what an old 2x4 and a couple of nails used to do.
FYI Looking at composite decking materials.
The current deck is built on cement pillars that go a good 4 ft into the ground; they are big and very well planted and have not moved in 32 years that I have been here. I plan to reuse them. Other than maybe cantilevering two edges a bit to get a bit bigger lower deck,( front and left hand side) it will be the same joist layout with new joist. Not going to do the diagonal planks.
I don't think there is any cutting edge structural engineering to be done here. I was mostly looking for design software so that I could play with the deck design, material list and decorative options. Turns out I can design and build the deck faster than learning the free programs.
tester (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to SV reX :
Wood. Modern wood is so so so so so E36 M3ty that metal brackets-gussets and a bazillion twist-ring-shank-special nail-screws plus all the glue are needed to hold up what an old 2x4 and a couple of nails used to do.
Nah. Don't underestimate the power and cost of over-regulation.
Yes, the wood is E36 M3. But those fasteners don't make the wood better. They just cover the asses of design professsionals and inspectors who (rightfully) don't trust tradesmen to make quality connections.
Poor training, poor expertise at all levels, inspectors who are clueless, and lots and lots of profit motive.
I have built hundreds of structures. I rarely use those fasteners, because I learned old school building techniques from the historic buildings that I spent 30 years working in. I am perfectly capable of making secure connections and building great structures with good joinery and skill, not a random piece of hardware designed to make someone money.
tester (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to SV reX :
Wood. Modern wood is so so so so so E36 M3ty that metal brackets-gussets and a bazillion twist-ring-shank-special nail-screws plus all the glue are needed to hold up what an old 2x4 and a couple of nails used to do.
Eh, the wood is crap nowadays but you ever heard the saying " They don't build them like they used to.....thank God"? I've remodeled plenty of old buildings made poorly and supported by a blue slipper ( true story).
Good houses built by good craftsman are....well good houses and exist in all time frames
NOHOME said:FYI Looking at composite decking materials.
The current deck is built on cement pillars that go a good 4 ft into the ground; they are big and very well planted and have not moved in 32 years that I have been here. I plan to reuse them. Other than maybe cantilevering two edges a bit to get a bit bigger lower deck,( front and left hand side) it will be the same joist layout with new joist. Not going to do the diagonal planks.
I don't think there is any cutting edge structural engineering to be done here. I was mostly looking for design software so that I could play with the deck design, material list and decorative options. Turns out I can design and build the deck faster than learning the free programs.
TREX decking is terrible IMO, and I personally hate it.
Hot as hell, not nearly as durable as you'd think and moves much more than wood
Ok, my first time with this program but here is what Lowes deck designer spit out. It's not very accurate or user friendly or customizable, and it shows one more step than it should. I don't know what you wanted for dimensions but the best use of materials is to go with 4 foot increments.
12'x8' upper deck and 16'x12' lower deck. No idea whats going on with that diagonal framing that snuck in there.
I also tried Menard's deck designer but it really sucked and I gave up.
In reply to Antihero :
I love Trex. I've used it in some harsh environments (where pressure treated has to be replaced annually), and I've never had any issues.
SV reX said:In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Strange how the historic homes and buildings I've worked in have managed to survive. 🙄
That's because you didn't see the ones that didn't survive :)
SV reX said:In reply to Antihero :
I love Trex. I've used it in some harsh environments (where pressure treated has to be replaced annually), and I be never had any issues.
I've seen it used in places where it came apart in a year and had to be replaced under warranty and melted/sagged from heat.
The sagging was on 10 inch centers too, it was peculiar.
Having to replace pressure treated yearly sounds like it was under water constantly? In that situation I could see trex being a lot better
Keith Tanner said:SV reX said:In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Strange how the historic homes and buildings I've worked in have managed to survive. 🙄
That's because you didn't see the ones that didn't survive :)
I mean, that's a valid point but on the same hand if it didn't need remodeled or repaired chances are he wouldn't have seen it otherwise
We built a deck for my son in 2018 with materials sourced from Lowes. By then Trex had coated their usual rough decking with a smooth slick outer covering that the salesman talked us out of getting because they claimed it easily delaminated and we used whatever else they sold which looks just like the old Trex.
Please note the gaggle of 12" piers needed to spread the 50psf total load on quicksand muck with a soil baring capacity of 1000psf after he insisted on renting a do it yourself 12" man auger to drill 54" deep holes. 18'x20'
In reply to Antihero :
Well, there was that time where Trex used a bunch of recycled plastic bags from Walcrap and had that huge class action lawsuit. I was at Mt Rushmore a long time ago and the amphitheater was covered in an acre of Trex.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
That is pretty much where I would have ended up had I gone with a full raised single level deck. I decided that it will be two level and trying to maximize the lower level.
Your load bearing specs mean nothing to me since I do not work in the concrete engineering field and hence have no way to apply them in this context.
If I need to drill any more concrete pilons it will be an auger 4 ft down and a bag or three of whatever home depot is selling for premix concrete. Otherwise just going to assume that the pilons that are in place are good enough and make it work. I don't think we have had more than 4 people on this deck at the same time in the 32 years I have been here.
In reply to NOHOME :
Does the lower section go all of the way to the house and the upper section just sits on it? What are the dimensions of the footprint of the whole deck?
What's the distance from the patio door to the garage door? It looks like it should be 6'-4" counting the brick.
Use Quikrete 5000 and push in four #4 rebar around the perimeter of the hole after you pour the concrete.
The upper deck in NOT built on top a lower deck that goes all the way to the house. The lower deck ends where it meets the steps going up to the upper deck. The plan is to reclaim the space taken up by the steps going to the front
Yeah the distance is maybe around 6' from the edge of the upper deck to the garage door. Nothing will change there and that will be the path down from the upper deck. Come out the sliding door, you will be facing a railing right in front of you, turn left 90 degrees and you will be facing a 4' wide stairway with a hand rail on both sides going down to the lower deck level.
Ok, here is the deck with the stairs placed on the right side. Is your patio door 5' or 6' wide? If the deck elevation difference is 30", then there are 4 risers at 7.5" unit rise - ideal is 7" and the maximum is 7.75", with 3 steps. The floor plan shows 6 risers and 5 steps and I can't remove the extras so ignore the last two steps to the right next to the garage door. I am just guessing how wide the the upper deck is at 8'x5'. I have 6'-4" between the patio door and the garage door.
I would have fought making the upper landing that big, but it makes a really nice barbecue area.
Just two cents from me on composites. I rebuilt our deck about twenty years ago. Decking is a brand called "Weatherbest". It's basically recycled milk bottles and sawdust. The decking was fastened from beneath, so no screws visible. Anywhere I had to fasten anything with a topside screw has started to split. Freeze/thaw cycles are what's doing it I think. Don't do composite railing, they just aren't strong enough. The decking itself is still fine and I just power wash it every couple of years. Contrary to some opinions, I've never found it hot to my bare feet either, but it's also a blond colour.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
I wonder if you could use car bondo or JB Weld to fill in the top of the screw holes after cleaning everything with maybe alcohol and use a thin piece of sheet metal with a hole drill into it placed over the screw to keep things neat. Color might be wonky but paint over later.
Ok, by cheating on the elevations of the two decks I got it to draw the correct number of steps. The 3D views will look wrong though. There is maybe 3' of room to turn the corner at the bottom of the stairs if my door openings are correct.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
That's not cheating. Those are the elevations he said he was using.
36" is fine for a residential landing, although it's technically not legal as drawn (in the US). The IRC requires the run of a landing to be 36" or equal to the width of the stairs, whichever is more. With a 48" wide stair, the landing would technically need to be 48" long in the direction of travel (but nobody would catch that, and 36" is perfectly fine). Not sure what the Canadian rules are (but I am assuming there may be some similarities)
Will you need a permit for this?
In reply to SV reX :
I'm saying that I can't connect the two decks together and the program want's to run the stairs down to grade, or the ground and not to the lower deck like it should. It also won't draw anything lower than 12" above grade to the top of the decking. Stair risers also seem to be locked at 7". Of course there could be a lot of user error since I don't see any instructions. 
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Yep. That's why graph paper works for me. 😉
You'll need to log in to post.
