Defense Budget

The US Army has 51 bases in Germany. The Air Force has 4. The Marines have 1. Couldn't 45 of those bases close with absolutely no adverse affects on the security of the US, or the world, at all? In Japan, a country with about half the land area of Texas, there are 14 different military bases. I know having a presence in Europe and Asia is very important, but isn't this way past the point of diminishing returns? Couldn't billions of dollars be saved by mothballing many of these bases? I realize saying "shut them down" is a lot easier than doing it, but didn't alot of military bases in the US get shut down several years ago? Why couldn't more overseas bases be closed and more local ones remained open?

What I find interesting is that while the US spends 10X more money on defense than Russia, the US only exports about 50% more arms (dollar-wise) to other countries than Russia. With all this money being spent on new weapons, I figured the US arms industry would completely dominate the arms industries of other countries, but it's not as dramatic as I expected. I assume that has a lot to do with the US not selling stuff to China, Iran, North Korea, etc, while Russia is probably not as descriminating. (Arms Spending Source: Wikipedia)

As a Canadian working in the US, I don't mind paying taxes to help support the US military (though the budget does seem huge) because I know that it not only helps protect the US, but all of its allies as well. It's one area I wish my government would spend more money.

Bob

You guys ever seen the movie "Pentagon Wars"? Excellent, educational, and funny film. Based on a book by the same name that has even more info about how projects are run at the Pentagon.

Schmidlap wrote: The US Army has 51 bases in Germany. Bob

That number isn't accurate anymore. More like 1/3 that now.

This is what I work on, 20 years in army and now as a civilian. We're fielding new ones to replace the old 40 year old airframes now.
Equipment cost money and civilian company builders like to get their share of Uncle Sams pocket. We have the best technology (usually) and more of it. Maintenance costs are high with high tech stuff and with a war going on this stuff is used more leading to higher maintenance costs plus replacement for losses/damaged. Tack on other expenditures like pay and benefits, that's a lot. Could it be done cheaper? I don't believe so from working at the level I am now. More efficiently? Probably.

I am fighting not to write a diatribe or an essay on this one, so I will just give this tidbit and leave it at that.

Research at universities are funded through the Defense Department under the Defense Department budget because to obtain more than $1M you have to have congressional approval. The DOD falls outside this rule.

I know allot of research that has been funded by the DoD that isn't military oriented. If you want to argue this one just ask your significant other if she prefers the old smash and scan mammogram or the new free floating no touch mammogram.

This came from DoD budget, given to Duke for research. Cut Defense, you cut education and technology.

Go cut entitlements, the last time I checked the only thing anyone is entitled to do is die and pay taxes.

I will go back to my corner and twitch now.

How dare you come in here with all yer fancy logic and reasoning!

harumph!

FlightService wrote: I am fighting not to write a diatribe or an essay on this one, so I will just give this tidbit and leave it at that. ..... I will go back to my corner and twitch now.

Same here... My mother was a defense contract buyer/negotiator for 25 years (retired)... and apparently was very good at it as well since she won a number of awards (bonuses and step raises) for saving the Govt money. Her penny-pinching Quaker upbringing probably had something to do with it.

Regardless, the DOD purchasing procedures changed drastically during her time. When she started, there were agents who would receive the parts orders from the base logistics clerks who would process the order and transfer it to the buying agent (my mother). Some 10-15 years ago, they streamlined the process to make it one person to receive and purchase the order.

Additionally, the govt realized it was very inefficient to go through this process to purchase a $20 box of screws. With this in mind, supply clerks are given more freedom to literally drive down to the local Home Depot to make purchases under a certain amount, leaving the central purchasing office to handle larger orders where better terms could be negotiated. This helped greatly towards not letting another $500 hammer slip through the system.

When she started in the early 80's, her desk was piles and piles of papers. When she ended, the entire process was computerized and essentially paperless.

Are there still places to save money? Of course. But it's ignorant to say the DOD has done nothing over the years to try and save money.

Oh well... so much for not writing an essay...

Here's a good one to get people fired up:

Imagine if we spent just 5% of the Defense Budget on Foreign Aid.

Now I'm not one for giving free food to people who hate us, but schools would be a start. Even just sending a few more PeaceCorp volunteers could go along way towards making potential enemies like Americans much more.

Compare PeaceCorp volunteer salary to US Army PVC.

I have read many articles about how many PeaceCorp folks think they could have done much more had they been stationed with a group of like minded individuals as opposed to 1 person per region.

"Whatever the outcome of this budget struggle, though, bigger battles will come this summer in Congress. The 2012 budget proposed on Tuesday by Paul Ryan, the Republican chairman of the House budget committee, would reduce federal spending by $5.8 trillion over the next decade: a 29% cut next year to international affairs and foreign assistance, and 44% by 2016. Defence spending would rise by 14% over the same period."

PHeller wrote: Here's a good one to get people fired up: Imagine if we spent just 5% of the Defense Budget on Foreign Aid. Now I'm not one for giving free food to people who hate us, but schools would be a start. Even just sending a few more PeaceCorp volunteers could go along way towards making potential enemies like Americans much more. Compare PeaceCorp volunteer salary to US Army PVC. I have read many articles about how many PeaceCorp folks think they could have done much more had they been stationed with a group of like minded individuals as opposed to 1 person per region. "Whatever the outcome of this budget struggle, though, bigger battles will come this summer in Congress. The 2012 budget proposed on Tuesday by Paul Ryan, the Republican chairman of the House budget committee, would reduce federal spending by $5.8 trillion over the next decade: a 29% cut next year to international affairs and foreign assistance, and 44% by 2016. Defence spending would rise by 14% over the same period."

We've spent trillions in forgein aid without much "goodwill". In Africa alone we've poured countless billions in aid and HIV research, same for many other 3rd world countries around the world. I'm not saying you don't want to do it, I'm just saying if that it is your motive, it will not do a thing. Most of the countries that hate us, hate us because of our Christian heritage and our support of Isreal. Giving them money will do nothing to reverse that. Also, most of those countries are so corrupt, the people that need the help most never see it.

We do a lot of work in South Africa, a place that has gotten it's share of US money, and I can't even begin to describe what conditions are like there. They see Americans as a change machine and someone to take advantage of, and the ones that need the real help will never get it with the current "governments" in place. And I use the term government lightly.

Am I the only one who doesn't care about using foreign aid to pay off countries that hate us, when we have an ineffectual educational system, starving children and a society where nearly 1 in 6 people depend on the gov't for food stamps?

We should concentrate on getting our own house in order before we worry about the rest.

Ian F wrote: Are there still places to save money? Of course. But it's ignorant to say the DOD has done nothing over the years to try and save money.

When news is only supported through advertising revenue, news becomes entertainment. Entertainment requires controversy. No one ever went to a movie or read a book about someone who had a typical life on a normal day when nothing much happened.

So, they look for the drama. Since that's all you see, it creates the impression that's all there is. No drama in a story about a responsible government employee who does a good job one day and finds a way to save some money. There may be thousands of those stories, but the one story about "government waste" perpetuates the public perception regardless of the reality.

That's the news, and really, whatever. The unfortunate part is politicians know how to do this too. So great legions of them create loads of drama around "government waste". But when pressed to say where this waste is actually occurring, they point to the same old programs they oppose for reasons that have nothing to do with budget and everything to do with emotional leverage. They never bother to mention that this "terrible waste" of a program is barely a footnote in the budget they swore to cut the vast waste from.

Actually, I'm wrong. That's not the unfortunate part. The unfortunate part is that people buy the same old story over and over again thinking, somehow, this time they really mean it! There's no mystery about why we continue to elect the worst possible people. They're the ones sleazy enough to play the game. We have a government run by snake oil salesmen. And we keep buying their wares.

Meanwhile, there's a room full of execs at CNN praying for a government shut-down. Amost certainly have a graphic package "America in Crisis!" all ready to go.

z31maniac wrote: Am I the only one who doesn't care about using foreign aid to pay off countries that hate us, when we have an ineffectual educational system, starving children and a society where nearly 1 in 6 people depend on the gov't for food stamps? We should concentrate on getting our own house in order before we worry about the rest.

Same here. Until we get things in order, there is no reason for us for us to waste money on foreign aid. When do we get foreign aid from anyone?

z31maniac wrote: Am I the only one who doesn't care about using foreign aid to pay off countries that hate us, when we have an ineffectual educational system, starving children and a society where nearly 1 in 6 people depend on the gov't for food stamps? We should concentrate on getting our own house in order before we worry about the rest.

Imagine if 10% of the defense budget were spent to help inmprove the educational system ;)

Watching Rambo III last night, it sure didn't seem like it occurred to anyone that giving weapons to the repressed citizenry of Afghanistan was a bad idea. Arming, training and funding guerillas never seems to work out well for us. Maybe that is one area we can cut back on defense spending.

John Brown wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Am I the only one who doesn't care about using foreign aid to pay off countries that hate us, when we have an ineffectual educational system, starving children and a society where nearly 1 in 6 people depend on the gov't for food stamps? We should concentrate on getting our own house in order before we worry about the rest.

Imagine if 10% of the defense budget were spent to help inmprove the educational system ;)

Break-up teachers unions and eliminate the idiotic No Child Left Behind and I'd vote for it 100x over.

Maybe someone can link the Harvard study that concludes removing teachers' unions from public education is the most efficient way to improve the quality of education in this country.

Bring back the soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan and now Libya and put them on our southern border.

I bet that would help that pesky illegal immigration problem.

z31maniac wrote:

John Brown wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Am I the only one who doesn't care about using foreign aid to pay off countries that hate us, when we have an ineffectual educational system, starving children and a society where nearly 1 in 6 people depend on the gov't for food stamps? We should concentrate on getting our own house in order before we worry about the rest.

Imagine if 10% of the defense budget were spent to help inmprove the educational system ;)

Break-up teachers unions and eliminate the idiotic No Child Left Behind and I'd vote for it 100x over. Maybe someone can link the Harvard study that concludes removing teachers' unions from public education is the most efficient way to improve the quality of education in this country.

• 1 gazillion It's not money that's killing our education system, it's the aea, dept. of education, and stupid policies like No Child Left Behind. Just take a look at Detroit's system for an example. They spend huge amounts of federal money on education, more than most other places, and their schools are pathetic. Of course, parantal involvement also means a lot, and is something sadly lacking in many households today.

My sister did her doctorate on this problem (she's a college dean now), and it totally changed her views. She used to be of the mindset that most of education's problems were a lack of money, and she was rabid about that. Afterwards, her view is that is far removed from money where the problems lie. The govt. as a whole has totally screwed our education system, and the destruction of the family unit and "political correctness" has finished it off.

z31maniac wrote: Bring back the soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan and now Libya and put them on our southern border. I bet that would help that pesky illegal immigration problem.

Not to be a prick, but there is an equally large problem on the northern border, but those folks are better educated and often look like us.

Lets get the illegal immigrants sorted out and legalized, improve and streamline the immigration process and tax the snot out of them just like the rest of us.

Also legalize and tax marijuana.

And make my bottle deposit a nationwide requirement.

I know I am missing something ;)

John Brown wrote: Imagine if 10% of the defense budget were spent to help inmprove the educational system ;)

Imagine if the federal government were not responsible for funding the educational system.

Oh wait, THEY'RE NOT.

tuna55 wrote: Same here. Until we get things in order, there is no reason for us for us to waste money on foreign aid. When do we get foreign aid from anyone?

That's fine, and I have no problem exploring it. It seems to be the ONLY cost cutting measure that enjoys popular support.

Unfortunately it represents such a tiny fraction of the budget that it would have virtually no effect on the deficit, let alone attacking the debt.

At some point, we either have to look at the enormous, very popular programs that many people base their votes on or the low level of Federal taxation that many others base their votes on. The two just don’t square. But the one side has been very effective at protecting any cuts to their programs and the other has been very good at delivering the tax cuts they promised. I was hopeful that there was going to be some serious discussion on the cost side, but they diminished quickly when it became clear that they were more interested in staging a bit of political theater than doing anything. Furthermore, there seem to be quite a few who don’t much care what havoc they wreak for actual American citizens in the process. The lot of them are acting like 12 year olds, unwilling to compromise in the least on anything.

Ah. I see CNN just tossed to their reporter at the "Shutdown Desk". Sigh.

tuna55 wrote: Imagine if the federal government were not responsible for funding the educational system. Oh wait, THEY'RE NOT.

Um, I don't... er, I mean, if you're imagining something then it goes without saying that it... rather, he didn't suggest that it... I...

Nope, I got nothing. Good point... er somethin'. Problems solved!

z31maniac wrote: Bring back the soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan and now Libya and put them on our southern border. I bet that would help that pesky illegal immigration problem.

I bet it would. No, I'm sure it would. And if we want to do that, we can do that.

Unfortunately it would have virtually no impact on the federal budget. But I do think it would garner votes in the next election cycle, so you may indeed see it happen.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Imagine if the federal government were not responsible for funding the educational system. Oh wait, THEY'RE NOT.

Um, I don't... er, I mean, if you're imagining something then it goes without saying that it... rather, he didn't suggest that it... I... Nope, I got nothing. Good point... er somethin'. Problems solved!

I just mean that by the letter and intent of the law, zero federal dollars are allocated to education. That clearly isn't the way it is now.

Let's play this game: What programs do you think COULD NOT be cut by at least 10% RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW.

My answer:

None. If I was in charge for a day, I would slash and burn. My Dad put it this way "I'd put every employee of every local, state and federal government on a list. Fire every other one and eliminate their position, that's a good start for the first day"

Loopholes. The Federal Goverment assists each state with funding that is used for various programs including, eventually, the educational system. It may be an endowment or grant for a university or pork on another bill... Trust me, you pay for it ;)