Detailing: Wax vs. Polish?

I just waxed part of my 84 300D (hood & trunk). I used a Turtle Wax product one step up from the basic wax. I hate it, and I will be stripping it off this Saturday, I may as well of used toothpaste. It was heavy, hard to work with, and the results look like crap. It looks worse than it did before I waxed it. I haven't used TW for about four years. I started using Meguiars NXT, which is a polish with no carnuaba in it AFAIK. I never used anything else after that. It brought real depth to an old finish, even of it didn't last very long. TW is so heavy and heavy duty to deal with and the results are not so great. I'm picking up some NXT this weekend and doing it over again, after I dish soap this junk off my car.

Maybe TW, or any other heavy wax, works well with newer finishes with intact clearcoat, but on older cars with a patina that can be diminished with a good polishing, it is murder and makes it look worse. Am I using it wrong? Do others concur with my thoughts? And BTW, I don't hate TW as a maker of products, I use their chrome polish exclusively, but the waxes are just not for me or my cars.

Meguiars is a nice product I used it all the time when I detail'd cars afew years ago(3 1/2). I dont remember wich one of there polish's I used. There was also one call'd Wizzard polish. I when I used wizzard it was easyer and I would get the same finish.

When i am detailng to perfection. My brother gets this stuff from "Poor Boys" they have a slew of products. WOW! it makes a $400 dollar saturn look like new:)

What is Zaino? It's not a wax and they say it's not a polish.

The NXT stuff is not bad for off he shelf, but I order and use Wolfgang's Sealant, not a carnuba based wax but an polymer. I put S303 on top of that (available at Harley dealerships) to give it more depth. To really put the stuff on correctly you should use a random orbital polisher, but you can get decent results by hand.

I actually have a 5 step process I use.

wash polish (meguiers) Sealant Carbuna

If you want to read up on it, http://www.ocdetails.com is a great site, it converted me.

A polish is a dedicated cleaner/shiner.

A wax is a protectant.

Many "all in ones" do nothing well in one step.

If you don't have a buffer, then get some Mother's Step 1 Pre Wax cleaner to clean the surface of old oxidation/crud, then follow it w/ the NXT.

Meguiar's Step 1 paint cleaner is very decent, too.

Synthetics tend to always come off "blotchy". While the NXT is a synthetic, it's blotchiness can be gotten rid of by applying a coat of a Quick Detailer after the wax is buffed off.

Detailing is pure voodoo. Go to www.autopia.org and read for about 40 hours. You'll learn a lot.

Thanks guys, I've been learning as I go and reading tips from detailuniversity.com. I think older finishes (read oxidized, hazing, "vintage") need a bit of a special touch, especially my benz. Its just so finicky about stuff. I tried the Eagle 1 quick detailer spray stuff onet ime and it was just horrible, too! (Not the product, just how it reacted to my car!)

I've heard of Poor Boys, and a friend of mine uses a detailer and they use Zaino products but I don't know what is in that product. I buy off the shelf and don't have the budget to go for Griot's or some of the more "professional" products. I have found that NXT still provides some protection above just cleaning, as it gives good beading. I use it on my MG, along with some other products (Back to Black, chrome polish, a decent but not too aggressive wheel cleaner, and NXT plastic/vinyl cleaner) and its like the entire car is encased in space age materials! Every surface beads.

When I got my Prelude she looked like a piece of chalk there was so much texture on the paint. I used a rubbing compound that came in paste form, then I used mother's clay bar system, then meguire's cleaner wax, then meguires gold class wax. I get lots of compliments on her now and I even had a professional detailer ask me who does my car I have been tempted to buy the Klassee polish and glaze, but I haven't yet.

mattmacklind wrote: Thanks guys, I've been learning as I go and reading tips from detailuniversity.com. I think older finishes (read oxidized, hazing, "vintage") need a bit of a special touch, especially my benz. Its just so finicky about stuff. I tried the Eagle 1 quick detailer spray stuff onet ime and it was just horrible, too! (Not the product, just how it reacted to my car!) I've heard of Poor Boys, and a friend of mine uses a detailer and they use Zaino products but I don't know what is in that product. I buy off the shelf and don't have the budget to go for Griot's or some of the more "professional" products. I have found that NXT still provides some protection above just cleaning, as it gives good beading. I use it on my MG, along with some other products (Back to Black, chrome polish, a decent but not too aggressive wheel cleaner, and NXT plastic/vinyl cleaner) and its like the entire car is encased in space age materials! Every surface beads.

My biggest complaint about NXT is that, where I live - lots of industrial fallout, it only seems to last for a few weeks. I tried FourStar products and they don't even last that long, but boy was the finish slick.

After all was said and done, I'm back to Zaino. It lasts about 6 months and I can layer it without having to do the whole Dawn-wash-clay-polish-wax routine.

Zaino has been proven through many tests to be the longest lasting LSP although I've been reading some good things about Aquawax(?) recently.

As for purchasing Zaino, go to www.zainostore.com and order it there. It's expensive but I can do my fleet of 5 cars every six months for two years on a single bottle of Z-2 or Z-5. And again, whenever the finish feels a bit rough, I can add another layer and slick it right up again.

Zaino's an LSP, what's an LSP?

I feel kinda guilty that I just use soap and water, and the occasional No.7 compound and whatever wax was on sale.

carguy123 wrote: Zaino's an LSP, what's an LSP?

Last step product.

The overuse of acronyms on autopia will make the average person homicidal.

But you're not cool if you don't use TLAs

Mofos House of De-terdings OFFICIAL guide:

1: Wash with Dawn dish soap. Not house brand, other brand or that brand... DAWN DISH SOAP

2: Remove solids and caked on debris with a diaper cloth and Prepsolv (detailing solvent available through most paint stores)

3: Wash again

4: With adjustable speed polishing wheel, apply and remove Meguiars A3016 paint cleaner ( http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/detail/MEG+A3016)

5: Polish the paint with compound and adjustable speed polisher and foam bonnet DEPENDING ON PAINT DAMAGE YOU MAY NEED ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING: ( If paint surface is rough START with the heaviest then go to the finest)

• Heavy cut cleaner Meguiars M0416
• Medium cut cleaner Meguiars CUT16
• Fine cut cleaner Meguiars M0216
• Ultra cut compound Meguiars ULTRA32

6: Using low speed polisher (random action orbital) apply and remove swirl remover Meguiars SWIRL16

7: Using low speed polisher (random action orbital) apply and remove glaze Meguiars SHOW16

8: Using foam applicator and microfiber towels apply and remove Turtle Wax Hard T222R Hard Shell Car Wax

You will notice that I use one of the most common and cheapest waxes available... It is because the wax should be reapplied at least quarterly.

You may use other similar products, many manufacturers make them. I would not use a "do all" if you care about the paint. Use each product step by step and your paint will look great for a long time.

I have always been warned against using any kind of circular polisher as they leave circular scratches in the finish. That seems to be what I have seen in real life as well. So how are you guys getting around the scratching?

Polishing is exactly the same as sanding, just on a smaller scale. As with sanding, scratches result from finishing with too harsh a polish (paper grade). If you have scratches, you need to polish more, with a lighter polish (note the 4 (!) steps of polish noted above).

Of note, polishing is removing paint. Just something to be aware of.

I see that claybar didn't make mofo's list. I'd add that. It does some amazing stuff.

carguy123 wrote: I have always been warned against using any kind of circular polisher as they leave circular scratches in the finish. That seems to be what I have seen in real life as well. So how are you guys getting around the scratching?

Rotary buffer--disastrous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing (read: very few people)

Random orbital buffer--much safer in the hands of an amateur

Those "circular scratches" are swirl marks. Mainly caused by improper washing of the car (automatic car washes, sponges [instead of wash mitt] with not enough soap, drying with rough terry towels or a junky chamois--among other things)

A rotary buffer will "hologram" the paint and/or leave "buffer trails"--which are both a result of a trained monkey using said rotary on a car.

Here's some of my better work (about 5.5 hours of love)

Wash w/ Meguiar's wash

Simple Green as wheel cleaner

Turtle Wax Ice Liquid Clay

Mother's Pre Wax Cleaner applied by hand for some rough/stuck-on stuff (comes out smooth w/ way less effort than clay)

3M Rubbing Compound (applied w/ Ryobi 6" orbital w/ foam bonnet) (I now do this step with a wool bonnet)

Meguiar's #9 w/ buffer

NXT 2.0

Megs Quik Detailer

Megs Hot Shine tire gel

Good lord! Look at the shine on that!

[Makes notes on shine products]

EastCoastMojo wrote: Good lord! Look at the shine on that! [Makes notes on shine products]

Thanks. Not my car--I detail on the side. This was for a very particular friend who was pretty happy w/ the end result.

Keep in mind, everyone has a system they swear by. A lot of detailers out there are product snobs. I'm of the belief that over-the-counter stuff will work great if you take the time to apply/remove it correctly. It's real OCD kinda stuff (clearly).

You learn what works and then tweak that system here and there, case-by-case.

I have tweaked my system but I'll be damned it if looks that good yet LOL. THere's like three different blues in there. And, yes, I am OC about my OCDness.

Poor boys is the best, hands down.