Diesel: 90's Ford v. Chevy

I bought a 2008 V6 Silverado Ext. Cab to tow my son's various karting equipment around. I figured the V6 would save me on gas. Boy was I wrong. I'm lucky to get 15 on the freeway unloaded and it drops to 8 with my 6x12 cargo trailer attached. (I even have a camper shell to help aerodynamics. It doesn't).

I really like the truck and got a great deal on it, but this 8 MPG ain't cutting it when we have a couple of 1000+ mile trips planned.

So, I'm considering dumping it and getting a diesel. I'd like to keep under $4000 so I can pay cash and have no truck payment.

For that amount, the '99+ Powerstrokes and new generation bodystyle Dodge cummins are out of my range.

In my range are mid-90's Powerstrokes and mid-90's 6.5 diesel Silverado's. I lean more towards the Chevy's because the are generally more comfortable (to me) and I like the styling better. Plus, 90% of the Ford's are 4-door long beds, which would be great if we ever get a 5th wheel, but parking it (chances are the truck will also be a DD) would suck.

Which would be the better purchase? (assuming maintenance, etc are equal) The Ford or the Chevy? How bad are the 6.5 diesels of that year?

-Rob

I got my 95 Dodge dually for right at 4k. 2wd, Cummins, and a build auto with ats converter. It had new tires and the ac even worked. If you're patient the deals are out there.

Given the same situation I would take a hard look at these.

http://www.soarr.com/inventory/specsheet/?ID=2324274

I had a 4 cyl. turbo-diesel tow my truck AND racecar on a trailer at 60mph. Seemed comfy enough, don't know anything about milage, but it's only got four cylinders, how bad can it be?

Yeah, why not get a NON 99+ dodge? It's simply a FAR better engine that either of those and mine got 22 mpg on the highway and about 20 in the city empty. Reliable as the day is long.

Sorry, the 99+ was in reference to the Fords.

I have not found a "new" Ram truck with the Cummins in my price range. (By new, I mean when they redesigned it from the old boxy version that had be recycled since the 60's. I guess that was 94?)

914, I'd really like to put one of those NPR diesels in my Silverado, but emissions would be a little difficult...

-Rob

rob_lewis wrote: I have not found a "new" Ram truck with the Cummins in my price range. (By new, I mean when they redesigned it from the old boxy version that had be recycled since the 60's. I guess that was 94?)

I'll take the boxy design that has the most simple and reliable diesel. No computers to malfunction, 1 glow grid that works for the life of the truck (seems like it, as I know nobody that has had to replace one) and a nice mechanical injection system.
But hey, that's just my preference. I sold mine with 365K on it and the engine had never been opened and would still pull 11K all day long and return fuel economy in the high teens with that load.

DrBoost wrote:

rob_lewis wrote: I have not found a "new" Ram truck with the Cummins in my price range. (By new, I mean when they redesigned it from the old boxy version that had be recycled since the 60's. I guess that was 94?)

I'll take the boxy design that has the most simple and reliable diesel. No computers to malfunction, 1 glow grid that works for the life of the truck (seems like it, as I know nobody that has had to replace one) and a nice mechanical injection system. But hey, that's just my preference. I sold mine with 365K on it and the engine had never been opened and would still pull 11K all day long and return fuel economy in the high teens with that load. Why do you think Chevy guys swap in Cummins, Ford guys swap in Cummins but you never see a Dodge with the PSD or Duramax under the hood? Now someone will find a picture on the great wide internet to make me look dumb

rob_lewis wrote: 914, I'd really like to put one of those NPR diesels in my Silverado, but emissions would be a little difficult... -Rob

http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/

duh...

screw the dodge.. The trucks are ass. Don't believe me? How many gas versions do you still see running around? from 94 or so.. Like none. I see chevy's and dodges from the era all the time.

the 6.5 turbo chevy is pretty nice. they had plenty of time to correct the issues that the early 6.2's had. plus the chevy auto is the bulletproof 4L80-E

its hard to beat the 88-98 chevy for looks as well.

This topic comes up every week, I swear!

I have owned all 3. Ford Powerstroke, Chevy with a 6.5 Turbo Diesel, and a Dodge with a 12 Valve, P Pumped Cummins.

Fords of that era have the highest cost of service parts for the engine by a wide margin. HUEI injectors, high pressure oil pumps, and whatnot do not come cheap. They run great, but are not intercooled and hardish starting when cold especially if the engine oil is older in them.

Chevys are gonna be the cheapest diesel of the era for a nice one, and you could get them in a half ton, Tahoe and Suburban configuration, something you couldnt get with the other two. They all have IFS front ends, which ride nice but are not as tough as a straight axle. If you get a 6.5, definitely get the latest model year you can find, as the engines were continuously and drastically improved as the years go on. Engine parts are cheap. Chassis parts are cheap, and DIY service is exceptionally easy. They go down the road nice and quiet and start very well even in dead cold weather.

Dodge's are a mixed bag. They have far and away the best engine out of the three. The rest of the truck is OK at best. The 5 speed transmission is the same one that the GM trucks got and the axles are similar to what the Fords have. The automatics dont live long behind the diesels, but a proper rebuild will have you towing with the best of them for a long time, Rebuilds are cheap, and most of the trucks in your price range have already had one installed. Look for things like a billet torque converter, aftermarket valve body, and billet apply levers. The chassis and bodies rust worse than their contemporaries, but parts are just as available as a Ford or a Chevy if you are into bodywork, or get one from down south.

My favorite diesel truck is the Dodge with the Cummins. It tows great, goes down the road well, and delivers silky smooth power. It also delivers great fuel economy.

As far as all the gas Dodges being off the road, I dont believe it. The trucks did not sell as well as the Fords or Chevys when new, meaning there are few to begin with. I see as many 90s Dodges on the roads as 90s Fords and Chevys. I would say actually there are fewer old sheetmetal F150s around than Dodges or Chevys, at least in southern Wisconsin.

93gsxturbo wrote: This topic comes up every week, I swear! I have owned all 3. Ford Powerstroke, Chevy with a 6.5 Turbo Diesel, and a Dodge with a 12 Valve, P Pumped Cummins. Fords of that era have the highest cost of service parts for the engine by a wide margin. HUEI injectors, high pressure oil pumps, and whatnot do not come cheap. They run great, but are not intercooled and hardish starting when cold especially if the engine oil is older in them. Chevys are gonna be the cheapest diesel of the era for a nice one, and you could get them in a half ton, Tahoe and Suburban configuration, something you couldnt get with the other two. They all have IFS front ends, which ride nice but are not as tough as a straight axle. If you get a 6.5, definitely get the latest model year you can find, as the engines were continuously and drastically improved as the years go on. Engine parts are cheap. Chassis parts are cheap, and DIY service is exceptionally easy. They go down the road nice and quiet and start very well even in dead cold weather. Dodge's are a mixed bag. They have far and away the best engine out of the three. The rest of the truck is OK at best. The 5 speed transmission is the same one that the GM trucks got and the axles are similar to what the Fords have. The automatics dont live long behind the diesels, but a proper rebuild will have you towing with the best of them for a long time, Rebuilds are cheap, and most of the trucks in your price range have already had one installed. Look for things like a billet torque converter, aftermarket valve body, and billet apply levers. The chassis and bodies rust worse than their contemporaries, but parts are just as available as a Ford or a Chevy if you are into bodywork, or get one from down south. My favorite diesel truck is the Dodge with the Cummins. It tows great, goes down the road well, and delivers silky smooth power. It also delivers great fuel economy. As far as all the gas Dodges being off the road, I dont believe it. The trucks did not sell as well as the Fords or Chevys when new, meaning there are few to begin with. I see as many 90s Dodges on the roads as 90s Fords and Chevys. I would say actually there are fewer old sheetmetal F150s around than Dodges or Chevys, at least in southern Wisconsin.

Huh, that must be a first. A well thought out, and intelligent post on the internet? I agree with everything.

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, why not get a NON 99+ dodge? It's simply a FAR better engine that either of those and mine got 22 mpg on the highway and about 20 in the city empty. Reliable as the day is long.

I also disagree with the whole 12v's are better deal.. The engine is lower tech and has much less potential.. You're into the carb vs FI debate here bud.. In the future you'll look back at the 12v's and say how simplistic and weak they are...

I know why everyone loves the 98 12v's... and it's not cause the engine is better, there was an advantageous manufacturing mistake.

ignorant wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, why not get a NON 99+ dodge? It's simply a FAR better engine that either of those and mine got 22 mpg on the highway and about 20 in the city empty. Reliable as the day is long.

I also disagree with the whole 12v's are better deal.. The engine is lower tech and has much less potential.. You're into the carb vs FI debate here bud.. In the future you'll look back at the 12v's and say how simplistic and weak they are...

I know they are more limited, but that's fine with me. I'm not looking to make a sled pulling rig so getting 1,000 ft lbs isn't important to me. I like that they just run and run and only ask for diesel, oil and a filter every now and then. For a work horse truck that's all I want.

The 12 valve Cummins is definitely limited in terms of the number of modules I can stack on the ECU, or in terms of the amount of programmers I have to buy for it, and maybe even in ultimate power potential. That being said, for similar cost you can run a 12 valve right with a 24 valve until we start talking ultimate power drag or sled pulling applications, and even those will sometimes take the P7100 Bosch pump from a 12 valve due to its reliability, simplicity, durability, ease, and cost of modification.

For daily driver applications, there is no practical difference between the two. As a matter of fact, besides the inability to put a remote start on a 12 valve easily, I can't think of a single thing that either one does exceptionally better than the other. Pick whatever chassis suits you best and find the best condition one you can in that configuration. I wouldnt mind having a 2002 club cab with the 6 speed, 4 doors, and the best brakes and suspension, but there are not too many of those out there in my price range.

The carburetor to EFI comparison isnt exactly fair or accurate.

DrBoost wrote:

ignorant wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Yeah, why not get a NON 99+ dodge? It's simply a FAR better engine that either of those and mine got 22 mpg on the highway and about 20 in the city empty. Reliable as the day is long.

I also disagree with the whole 12v's are better deal.. The engine is lower tech and has much less potential.. You're into the carb vs FI debate here bud.. In the future you'll look back at the 12v's and say how simplistic and weak they are...

I know they are more limited, but that's fine with me. I'm not looking to make a sled pulling rig so getting 1,000 ft lbs isn't important to me. I like that they just run and run and only ask for diesel, oil and a filter every now and then. For a work horse truck that's all I want.

My 95 12v puts down a reliable and dyno proven 620 Ft lbs of TQ to the rear wheels. The best part? it was VERY cheap to get to that level.