Dishwasher question

So for the second evening in a row, I have crawled halfway inside my dishwasher to figure out the drain situation.  The basket is clean, everything on the dishwasher side of the pump is clean.  The pump comes on and runs smoothly.

Last night there was definitely a clog in the hose, on the other side of the pump.  I was fairly sure I would have to take the thing out from under the counter, but was able to use a small plunger right over the pump inlet and break the clog loose.  Tonight, I am not having as much luck.  It is not completely clogged, but there is enough backpressure/it drains slow enough that it makes the diswasher throw an error code.

Is there an easy way to clean the line out without removing it from under the counter?  I read putting drano in a dishwasher is a bad idea, but I'm wondering can I dilute it, and put it right into the pump inlet and immediately pump it into the drain line?  Any other suggestions?

Does it hook into the sink drain and garbage disposal? Check that side of things too.  

It hooks to the main sink drain, not to the disposal.

The only times my dishwasher has failed to drain is because something was in the drain hose.  At my house it has usually been a combo of squash seeds and coffee grounds that back flowed from the disposal.  Once cleaned out, all was well. 
 

try taking the hose off and draining into a bucket and see what happens.  

Yes, its definitely something in the hose.  

The question is, is there a good way of clearing the house without uninstalling the dishwasher first?  The hose is accessible from the sink side, but not from the dishwasher side.

You can try a shop vac from the sink side on the hose.

But seriously, dishwashers are easy to roll out in most cases.  At this point its the right thing to do.  A few screws to release it from the cabinet/top, and roll it out.

The draino/liquid plumber could cause you a bunch of trouble.

If thats what I need to do, I guess I'll do it.  I did it once before and it was a bit more of a pain that that.  Screws on top, remove lower panel, lower the feet, open the power junction box and disconnect it, disconnect drain hose on sink side, etc.

Not the end of the world, but if there were an easy button solution that didn't involve removing it, I would definitely go that route.

Shop vac is worth a try. 

Another vote for the shop vac. 

Shop vac, then check the sink drain for a restriction.

I would pull the drain hose off the sink and put it in a bucket.  Run a drain cycle on the washer while squeezing/shaking the hose.  see what comes out.

If that doesn't work, try carefully "snaking" it with something that won't puncture the hose to break it up.

If all else fails, reach under and disconnect the drain hose from the pump and take it outside for a more abusive cleaning.

Depending on the model (and whether or not you have popeye's arms) you can replace the hose without uninstalling the machine.  Just pull the front panel off and reach under.  My GE is pretty easy to do that.  Some you actually pull the pump out through the inside.  On my GE, the filter, pump, sump assembly is screwed to the bottom of the basin with a big o-ring.  If I wanted to, I can just take the basket out and do everything through the door.

Update:  I ended up just letting the bottom fill last time and then hitting it as hard as I could with a plunger and got it working again.

Its clogged once or twice since then and I fixed it the same way.  

It clogged again today and I said berkeley it and tore it out.  The drain hose system is 2 pieces, both of which are clear and free flowing.  Inside the dishwasher, the basket is clean.  I removed the impeller guard and it spins freely with my fingers.  I have no idea where the clog could be except inside the the pump.  When I disconnected the drainhose though, water flowed freely from the pump outlet.

Suggestions?  Anything I should pay special attention to when I reassemble this disaster?

Edit:  One thing I noticed which I thought was odd...  There seems to be a little tiny rubber flap in the pump outlet.  After I disconnected my hose I stuck my finger in there and could just feel it.  Is that normal?  Seems unnecessary in this system.

Edit 2:  Nevermind, that is a one way valve and apparently necessary.

Follow up.  The drain hose runs all the way up to the underside of the counter before returning down to the sink drain.  The connection point is ~34" above the floor.  Is this too high?  I know its supposed to have an upward loop in it to prevent dirty water from flowing back to it, but this seems excessive.  Then again, the inlet to the sink drain is ~17" off the floor.  Not sure how far above that the drain hose needs to be.

It's not too high.  The higher, the better.

Any chance the clog in actually in your house plumbing?  If the drain was partially clogged, it might be able to handle the volume from the faucet, but not the volume from the DW.

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

It's not too high.  The higher, the better.

Any chance the clog in actually in your house plumbing?  If the drain was partially clogged, it might be able to handle the volume from the faucet, but not the volume from the DW.

Thanks.

I suppose there is always a chance, but I can't see any evidence of a clog like that.  How would I check?

Like berkeleying clockwork.  Have to tear this thing out from under the sink and do this all over again.  I am so tired of this E36 M3.

What do I look for to prevent this from happening again?

I've been chasing poor sink drainage for years on my house.  Finally found it recently - big wad of drywall mud clogging everything at the last turn before exiting the house.  Thank you, one/all three previous home owners....

I had a similar problem and like Mr SVrex notes, it was a clog in the basement plumbing below the sink drain, where it went into the stack.  Couldn't get it with a snake so i sawzalled out that section, got some new metal pipes and a union, and put it back together.  Didn't use Fernco couplers because its my house and not a rental.  

Has not been an issue since.

I rarely disagree with Mr SVRex, but I would check the documentation with your dishwasher regarding proper draining.  34" does not seem too high to me but I did get a washing machine once that stated that the drain loop had to be XX" off the floor, too high and the little pump couldnt pump enough.  Water is heavy, after all.  My drain loop on my dishwasher is at garbage disposal so its only maybe 18-20" off the floor.  

I guess I am still trying to figure out the failure mode here - 

• When the dishwasher is torn apart, what is being replaced/addressed?
  • Is the same thing the solution every time?
  • Are hard parts being replaced or is it just a spit and shine?
• Once a trouble code is set, will you 100% of the time will get an error code until xxxx is done or is it sporadic/seemingly random even after the first time a trouble code is set?
• Is the dishwasher always run in the same mode, or do you run it in different modes?
  • If you run it in different modes can you correlate modes and trouble codes?
• Has this issue ever occurred with an old dishwasher or did it start when a new unit was installed?

To follow up, this time a shop vac on the drain hose was able to get it done.  My answers to your questions below:

• When the dishwasher is torn apart, what is being replaced/addressed? All I did was take the drain hoses off, clean them, and reinstall.  Didn't find any clogs.
  • Is the same thing the solution every time? Its a clog every time, but I'm not sure where, I never find any evidence of one.
  • Are hard parts being replaced or is it just a spit and shine?  No parts replacement.
• Once a trouble code is set, will you 100% of the time will get an error code until xxxx is done or is it sporadic/seemingly random even after the first time a trouble code is set?  Once its set its clear there is a draining issue, and I don't get a full cycle until I fix the problem.
• Is the dishwasher always run in the same mode, or do you run it in different modes?  Same mode
  • If you run it in different modes can you correlate modes and trouble codes?
• Has this issue ever occurred with an old dishwasher or did it start when a new unit was installed?  This dishwasher was installed new the day I bought the house, so I have no history with other units.

What comes out of the hoses when you clean them? 

Are you sucking or blowing with the shopvac, and which way are you moving material?  

What is the shopvac being connected to?

Has this been a problem since you moved in (like within the first 6 months?) or did it happen gradually?  How old is the unit in question?

Are there similar houses in your neighborhood with a similar layout?  If so, do any of them also have dishwasher drain issues?  Has anyone HAD an issue and solved it?  

Has the manual been consulted and is the drain being piped per the dishwasher manufacturers recommendation?

Maybe I missed it but have you posted pics of your drain hose routing?