Dogs and itching (allergies?)

I don't know where to turn with this but I know there are a number of long term experienced dog owners here, and a lot of general knowledge.

TLDR at the end

Both my wife and I have been life long dog owners, and since we've been together we've often had two at a time, but never seen anything like this. When the last two died of old age we decided no more. We're getting on and we want the freedom of being able to travel, or just pick up and leave when we feel like it. That lasted about a year when we started looking, and found Nelson, a 4 year old hound that looks to possibly be a weimaraner cross. The retired couple said he just wasn't working out, they lived in the city and he needs a place to run. We have that. But we also noticed he came with a lot of  different shampoos and whatnot. At first, and this was late fall, he was oily and stinky. We bathed him when we needed to and it was manageable. Then late summer next year he started scratching, and it got really bad. We took him to the vet and they gave us some shampoos. They did nothing. Then they gave us some pills. They did nothing. By this time he had no hair in a number of areas, including his face, was raw and bleeding in others, and losing weight rapidly. Then they recommended a cytopoint shot. This worked like magic and he was back to normal, not scratching, re-growing his hair and gaining his weight back. Everything was fine until late summer and it started to happen again. So we got the shot again. This time it lasted a month to sx weeks and he started scratching again.  At this point he's scratching himself raw. He looks terrible and sleeps most of the time. We're trying to get him in for another shot, or at least some direction, but the vet is busy, short staffed, there are covid restrictions, and she appears to be not all the interested in the first place. We finally got an appointment for him next Tuesday, and I call every morning to see if there are any cancellations, but that's where we are.

It seems to me that there should be an answer here, but I don't know. Is he the problem, is it that difficult to figure out?  Is the vet the problem, should I find another? I really don't know.

TLDR: My dog is scratching himself to death and I don't know what I can do about it.

We bathe them in Dawn dish soap. From the 6 lb Miya to the 75 lb Greta, it works very well and causes no irritation. 

If they aren't on a flea med, get them on one. Itching is frequently fleas, even if you don't see a lot of them. They are sneaky bastards and deserve to die. 

Give them fish oil. Do it at night because it will make their breath stink. 

He also might just need a friend. 

Doing all that already, 'cept the dish soap.

I get the friend part, I've read about that, and he is a little funny, but it seems to be linked to the time of year, though you'd think that should be gone by now.

I'm at my wit's end. We really hate seeing him suffer like this

Ugh, that's the worst. Our dog was a hot mess when we got her. She wasn't scratching herself raw, but she had no hair at her lower back/base of her tail. Her hair was oily. Like I said, a hot mess. 

The vet at the humane society did a skin scraping, and it wasn't mange.

We took her to our vet. He said she was covered in a yeast infection. He gave her pills, but I can't find that info. He also had us bathe her with Selsun Blue. 

As far as cause, he said it's likely either fleas, food or grass. I asked why. He said those are just the three most common allergens. 

He had us put her on a strict diet of sweet potato and venison food. So she eats this. She gets two pieces for a treat. She also gets an omega-3 with dinner every day. 

She's on flea meds–Simparica Trio.

Whenever she comes in from outside, we wipe off her paws. We keep a container of apple cider mixed with water in the laundry room.

Anyway, it's been close to a year and a half now, and she's been totally fine. Hair looks great, no yeast infection, no scratching. 

Hope something in here helps. 

Not a great photo, but you can see how thin her hair was here.

I took this photo earlier this week. (She likes to take her toys for a walk.)

We had that with a Beagle mix. It was food allergies. Same with a Min-Pin mix a few years later and it was food too, that one we fed mostly potatoes and carrots until we could introduce things he wasn't allergic to. 
 

I hope you can work things out. 

One of a friend's dogs is allergic to grass.  Took a long time to figure that one out.

That sounds rough, I'm sorry to hear about it. My dog had a bad allergy when I got him but it was a food allergy. One thing that may be helpful was the fact that the allergy took a really long time to go away after switching foods. The vet said the allergen can stay in their system for up to 2 months after switching foods. We did the vaccine in the meantime. 
 

Another to keep an eye out for is what they are eating outside. Maybe snacking on a plant during certain times of the year?

We've been down this road.  Sometimes its as easy as switching to non-traditional proteins in their foods (salmon based instead of chicken for instance) but really its trial and error.  Unless you've tried all that and nothing worked so you do as we did and actually take them for an allergy test.  Its the same as a  human one, they shave a part of the dog and do a bunch of monitored pin pricks of common allergies.   Not exactly cheap but got to the root cause right away and got treatment started.   In our case treatment consisted of monthly allergy shots until we rectified the underlying cause.  Our dog was allergic to cedar and we lived in a cedar sided house with a cedar tree in the yard so he was on shots until we found a new house to move to. 

My sister had a West Highland Terrier that was allergic to grass. The poor guy's undercarriage looked like elephant skin. They treated him with corticosteroids and antihistamines. They also had to keep their grass cut really short and in general tried to keep him off the grass. A lot of baths in the summer months to rinse the pollen off of him.

It was a lifelong battle and his skin would clear up over the winter. Just as he was looking great spring would come and it would start all over.

Vesper, our Saluki, is allergic to 27 various outdoor things. His skin has can be terribly inflamed at times, he scratches or licks himself raw, and his skin and fur can be oily. He is on a strict diet of turkey limited ingredient food from Zignature. I also cook up ground turkey with either fresh carrots and celery or frozen chopped broccoli. He gets about two thirds a cup of that plus half a cup of the Zignature twice daily. He gets a fish oil pill with every meal. He gets bits of Vitel Essentials dehydrated raw turkey patties as treats. We feed him nothing else. He sees an acupuncturist and baths in a medicated oatmeal based shampoo. When his skin gets "hot" we spray it with a steroidal spray that soothes his skin. It's much worse during summer months. He loves winter, we think, because it cools his skin and there's less environment to annoy his allergies. If we can keep him out of the bushes and undergrowth on our property his inflammation stays down. But he likes to run in his forest.

Took some time to find the right balance of diet and shampoo. Keep at it. And if your vet is disinterested, find a new vet. 

Good luck. Seeing a pet in discomfort is so hard because they communicate so differently than we do.

I'm not a veterinarian, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  I was married to a vet tech for 20 years, so take this for what it's worth... which is very little.

This is what my ex would suggest.  Go to the store and buy a big bulk pack of chicken.  If you want to do it cheap with a little labor, get a couple actual whole chickens and cook/strip.  I go ahead and get something like boneless thighs because if you get hasty with stripping a chicken carcass you can miss a bone which is potentially really bad.  Get some white rice.  Not minute rice because it has been treated with some things that make it not as good for dogs (but I can't remember why).  Just regular white rice.  Feed him nothing but about a 50/50 mix of chicken/rice for a month.

It's not a magic bullet used to solve the problem, it's just that of all dog food allergies, chicken and rice are A) a means of getting them a vaguely healthy meal while B) being the two least likely things that dogs tend to be allergic to.  Feeding them chicken and rice is not an answer, it's a test.  If his condition changes for the better, you know he likely has a food allergy.  If he doesn't respond for the better, either he's some rare dog that is allergic to chicken, or (the more common answer is) he does not have food allergies.

If he doesn't respond favorably to the chicken/rice test, some vets will suggest a month with ground beef, or some other protein.  I hate seeing my pup in agony (as obviously you do too) and I tend to push for a solution that doesn't involve me treating my fur child as a guinnea pig for months at a time with different proteins while I suddenly discover things like "ok, turkey evidently gives my dog squirty, foamy liquid poops."

Is it possible to get a phone call to a vet?  It's possible you could get a consult on whether or not it's appropriate for another Cyto shot, and also possible that you can get it and administer it yourself.  If I recall, Cyto is a subcutaneous injection which is a simple procedure.  Heck, I used to help out at the clinic giving cats subQ ringer injections and I'm a mechanic/carpenter.  Dirt simple.  That might be a way for you to skip the appointment and just DIY.

Please, though, check with a more qualified person before proceeding.  I'm operating on information I gleaned from an ex wife whom I divorced in 2013, who got information from a handful of vets over her career, so this is like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Apoquel is another anti-pruritic that might help.  It targets more JAK/Cytokines, but again... I'm a carpenter.  I put screws in wood.

Mr. Peabody said:

 We're trying to get him in for another shot, or at least some direction, but the vet is busy, short staffed, there are covid restrictions, and she appears to be not all the interested in the first place. We finally got an appointment for him next Tuesday, and I call every morning to see if there are any cancellations, but that's where we are.

I called every day last week - at their suggestion, trying to get him in earlier. Nothing.

We were so excited about taking him in today. They just called and canceled.  No other vets are taking new patients and most no longer even answer their phone. I'm furious.

We're taking some of the advice offered here and eliminating the high risk allergens from his diet.

Will report back, and thanks for the advice

My vet (also my cousin) says that if it's the belly, it's environmental, if it's on the face/head, it's the food. So if it is the food, there is probably some protein that their immune system is attacking. 
 

Paging Floating Doc?

Yesterday we got some of the food David is using, and made a few other changes to his diet, but this morning I was able to get through to the vet and with a little pleading, able to get him in for another Cytopoint injection this afternoon.

We are thrilled. It's so difficult seeing him suffer like this

mtn said:

My vet (also my cousin) says that if it's the belly, it's environmental, if it's on the face/head, it's the food. So if it is the food, there is probably some protein that their immune system is attacking. 
 

Paging Floating Doc?

Definitely the food. My sister has standard poodles and she tried switching their food. Smelly coats, itching, smelly ears, etc. I think she either switched back to what had been working or found another brand they didn't have a reaction to.

In reply to Mr. Peabody :

Good news and hopefully it works. Once we got our issues under control, we had a new dog. 

Most of the time, it is corn

It's been almost a year since I started this and thought it would be nice to follow up.

TL:DR It looks like our dog is finally better after a couple years of suffering.

So we endured about another six months or so of trying everything recommended, and everything we could think of, special diets, shampoos, allergy medication, along with the usual gross incompetence, and general negligence from our local vet. The cytopoint shots were doing nothing at this point. And then Nelson (schmelson) got what turned out to be a hematoma in one of his ears. The vet said there's no sense in operating, it won't do anything, prescribed prednisone, and said come see me in a month and if it's not better we'll give you more. So a week or so later when the prednisone did nothing, and it got much worse we brought him back.

At that point a woman I'd never seen before pulled me aside, took us into a side room and said, WTF is going on with this dog, pointing to his ear, the size of an empanada,  lack of hair, and overall scabby appearance. I told her the story, and she said, he needs surgery. Immediately, and this skin problem, I can fix this. we talked for about an hour and I told her of the lousy treatment I'd been getting, and all the money we'd spent with less than zero results.  She agreed and made me a deal. I will operate on his ear today. I will donate my time and only charge you for the things I have to pay for. As for his skin condition, it's not going to be easy and it's not going to be cheap, but I can fix this she said, for te second time. I was skeptical and I told her, we've had such bad service here in the past few years, why should I believe you?  I can't blame you but this is my thing, and I guarantee results.  I'll make this promise to you, if I can't fix this I will pay for everything.

OK, you're on.

So we kept him on the prednisone because it stopped the scratching, some of the skin irritation, helped his hair (very slowly) come back and then started with some extremely expensive anti fungal medications and bathed him every two days. That led to two different types of antibiotics, different anti fungals, and different shampoos. He was getting better, but every time we tried to wean him off the prednisone he started scratching, stinking, and getting scabs and bad dandruff again. She was very open about it, and said after months, this is a real challenge, I've never seen such a persistent yeast problem, and these scabs... Let's do a blood test, if his thyroid is not right, it's rare, but nuisance skin infections can be a problem. Apparently the test indicated low, so she put hin on some hormones, and within about a month the stink is going away, the scabs are disappearing, he has hair almost everywhere now, and his mood is 180 degrees. He no longer sleeps all the time, he's full of energy and playfulness, and is the old Nelson again. That part had happened so gradually we didn't realize hw bad he'd gotten.

So while she and I disagree a bit on what worked and what didn't - I think most of what we did accomplished little to nothing, it was the prednisone, the hormone, and the bathing that worked, it doesn't matter, she did an exceptional job, and he seems to be recovering rather nicely

This past August, that's one scabby looking hound.

I'll take a pic of him today and post it. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm not a veterinarian, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  I was married to a vet tech for 20 years, so take this for what it's worth... which is very little.

This is what my ex would suggest.  Go to the store and buy a big bulk pack of chicken.  If you want to do it cheap with a little labor, get a couple actual whole chickens and cook/strip.  I go ahead and get something like boneless thighs because if you get hasty with stripping a chicken carcass you can miss a bone which is potentially really bad.  Get some white rice.  Not minute rice because it has been treated with some things that make it not as good for dogs (but I can't remember why).  Just regular white rice.  Feed him nothing but about a 50/50 mix of chicken/rice for a month.

It's not a magic bullet used to solve the problem, it's just that of all dog food allergies, chicken and rice are A) a means of getting them a vaguely healthy meal while B) being the two least likely things that dogs tend to be allergic to.  Feeding them chicken and rice is not an answer, it's a test.  If his condition changes for the better, you know he likely has a food allergy.  If he doesn't respond for the better, either he's some rare dog that is allergic to chicken, or (the more common answer is) he does not have food allergies.

If he doesn't respond favorably to the chicken/rice test, some vets will suggest a month with ground beef, or some other protein.  I hate seeing my pup in agony (as obviously you do too) and I tend to push for a solution that doesn't involve me treating my fur child as a guinnea pig for months at a time with different proteins while I suddenly discover things like "ok, turkey evidently gives my dog squirty, foamy liquid poops."

Is it possible to get a phone call to a vet?  It's possible you could get a consult on whether or not it's appropriate for another Cyto shot, and also possible that you can get it and administer it yourself.  If I recall, Cyto is a subcutaneous injection which is a simple procedure.  Heck, I used to help out at the clinic giving cats subQ ringer injections and I'm a mechanic/carpenter.  Dirt simple.  That might be a way for you to skip the appointment and just DIY.

Please, though, check with a more qualified person before proceeding.  I'm operating on information I gleaned from an ex wife whom I divorced in 2013, who got information from a handful of vets over her career, so this is like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Apoquel is another anti-pruritic that might help.  It targets more JAK/Cytokines, but again... I'm a carpenter.  I put screws in wood.

this all day everyday .....

I need to figure out why Pepper is a scratchy brat.  Fairly sure it isn't a food allergy, but I haven't actually done the method that Curtis mentions above.