Don't call me a Vegan: Trying to improve my health

In reply to Mike: Please tell me they have it in green...

I've been tempted to go the Soylent route as well. DIY Soylent

mtn wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: How do you know a vegan is on your message board? Good work making a change, but do you have citations of all these conclusive studies?

Poultry workers have significantly increased risk of dying from penile cancer, thought to be due to exposure to oncogenic (cancer-causing) chicken viruses Red meat is bad (frown) To reduce cancer risks for meat eaters, boil your meat (but frying and grilling tastes so much better) Part I Part II Part III Inflammatory Meat Molecule Neu5Gc can cause arthritis (I know, cancer, but still) A high-protein diet during middle age makes you nearly twice as likely to die and four times more likely to die of cancer, but moderate protein intake is good for you after 65 Remember, these are all just single studies. I'm sure that it is easy to dispute everything I say (see below). Look at the data on the whole, which is what my wife and I are doing. Vegetarians have lower incidence of cancer than non-vegetarians, but a higher incidence of colo-rectal cancers And I'm not vegan yet. I won't ever be. I'm just striving to be that way for 90% or more of my diet.

If you truly think that eating lean, healthy and properly cooked cuts of meat are going to give you cancer, I just don't have much else to offer. I think it's silly, but whatever. And you're right, I misspoke in my haste in my earlier post. Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, but you get my point.

Hey listen, if you've convinced yourself that doing what you're proposing is healthy, then have at it. You don't need to convince us. We're not the ones who will be doing this. My very confident $.02 is that you're doing your body an injustice, but it's your body, not mine. All I can tell you is that I'm a middle aged man who has a very high protein diet (about 275g +/- 25 per day). I'm 5'9", 178lbs and in the low teens body fat %, as measured in a dunk tank. So without bragging, I'm pretty shredded. I could get closer to 10 or even the single digits if I wanted to give up my once/week cheat meal, but I have no interest in that right now, I enjoy my meal. Blood pressure is spot on, all lab work comes back perfect, etc... I've got all sorts of other health issues, but this isn't one of them. I know countless others who live similar lifestyles and are equally as healthy, and they're not dying off in mass due to cancer. Just not.

I went on a similar diet. Felt great. I fell off it as the prep work is a lot but I imagine you have to ask what your health's worth?

Check George Malkumus and his Raw Food Diet.

Loma Linda University School of Public Health did study on the link between diet and cancers. Here is a synopsis for the follow-up study 10 years in.

Loma Linda AHS Results

Wiki's version

trucke wrote: Loma Linda University School of Public Health did study on the link between diet and cancers. Here is a synopsis for the follow-up study 10 years in. Loma Linda AHS Results Wiki's version

Are they connected to the fake meat products sold under the Loma Linda name?

(They're mostly really good, by the way.)

Mike wrote:

trucke wrote: Loma Linda University School of Public Health did study on the link between diet and cancers. Here is a synopsis for the follow-up study 10 years in. Loma Linda AHS Results Wiki's version

Are they connected to the fake meat products sold under the Loma Linda name? (They're mostly really good, by the way.)

No connection today! However, there probably was a connection somewhere in the past.

The US Government was intrigued by the findings of the study that they funded AHS-2.

My wife and I have been vegan since 2000. Vegetarian for several years before that. There are so many more options now than there were a decade ago that's relatively easy to go meatless these days. Here are a few products you might want to check out:

Daiya cheese - Shreds, slices, or blocks. Vegan and lactose-free. Tastes and melts like cheese.

Upton's Naturals - Great seitan products. Have both plain and flavored varieties.

Earth Balance - Vegan margarine. The whipped is nice and creamy, I like it on pancakes with syrup. Also make sticks you can use for baking/cooking.

You can check out my wife's Instagram (vegandivablog) if you want to see what a fantastic vegan chef and baker is making. She's been food blogging for around 15 years and non-vegans request her baked goods all the time. She also plays guitar, hangs out with famous musicians, and loves architecture so you never know what you'll see in her feed. She'd be happy to give some cookbook or restaurant recommendations if you are interested. (IIRC, you're also near Chicago)

-Rob

Feel around inside your mouth and tell me if you have teeth with points.

Congratulations, you're an omnivore and you can eat meat. Don't fight thousands of years of evolution with your fad diet.

Remember, phrenology was cutting edge science at one time too.

There's something really unnatural about imitation meat and cheese products to me. I'd put the actual stuff in my body way before I eat some heavily modified version of soy that was created in a lab to taste like the real thing. I guess I'm more paleo in my approach, but we're basically animals and I don't see animals out in the wild eating imitation forms of actual foods.

STM317 wrote: There's something really unnatural about imitation meat and cheese products to me. I'd put the actual stuff in my body way before I eat some heavily modified version of soy that was created in a lab to taste like the real thing. I guess I'm more paleo in my approach, but we're basically animals and I don't see animals out in the wild eating imitation forms of actual foods.

But we do eat that imitation stuff on occasion.

Smart Balance is a staple too. We use the Earth Balance occassionally as nervousDog mentioned.

Trans_Maro wrote: Feel around inside your mouth and tell me if you have teeth with points. Congratulations, you're an omnivore and you can eat meat. Don't fight thousands of years of evolution with your fad diet. Remember, phrenology was cutting edge science at one time too.

And because I have hair on my chest, I clearly do not need to put a shirt or coat on in the cold.

STM317 wrote: There's something really unnatural about imitation meat and cheese products to me. I'd put the actual stuff in my body way before I eat some heavily modified version of soy that was created in a lab to taste like the real thing. I guess I'm more paleo in my approach, but we're basically animals and I don't see animals out in the wild eating imitation forms of actual foods.

I agree with you. I actually eat very little soy. The products I mentioned are all made from natural ingredients. Seitan is just wheat and water. Daiya is soy free. Earth balance is 100% plant-based.

I'm not against soy but I think there are better alternatives. Also, one of the earliest and biggest soyfood pioneers in the USA was some crazy guy named Henry Ford. I heard he also owned a car company or something.

If I was going vegetarian I wouldn't bother with any food trying to be a replacement - veggie burgers, etc.

I'd just eat what practicing Brahmin Indians eat all the time. It's delicious. They are thin, healthy and long lived. No need to berkeley with a winner - just follow the easy road.

Huckleberry wrote: If I was going vegetarian I wouldn't bother with any food trying to be a replacement - veggie burgers, etc. I'd just eat what practicing Brahmin Indians eat all the time. It's delicious. They are thin, healthy and long lived. No need to berkeley with a winner - just follow the easy road.

I hate Indian food. Is Brahmin Indian food different than what I know as Indian food?

mtn wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: If I was going vegetarian I wouldn't bother with any food trying to be a replacement - veggie burgers, etc. I'd just eat what practicing Brahmin Indians eat all the time. It's delicious. They are thin, healthy and long lived. No need to berkeley with a winner - just follow the easy road.

I hate Indian food. Is Brahmin Indian food different than what I know as Indian food?

Brahmins are the vegetarian high end of the Hindu caste system. They have been perfecting meatless recipes since the 3rd century or so. Like Monk beer... it's fairly well developed at this point.

Huckleberry wrote:

mtn wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: If I was going vegetarian I wouldn't bother with any food trying to be a replacement - veggie burgers, etc. I'd just eat what practicing Brahmin Indians eat all the time. It's delicious. They are thin, healthy and long lived. No need to berkeley with a winner - just follow the easy road.

I hate Indian food. Is Brahmin Indian food different than what I know as Indian food?

Brahmins are the vegetarian high end of the Hindu caste system. They have been perfecting meatless recipes since the 3rd century or so. Like Monk beer... it's fairly well developed at this point.

But, if I went to a restaurant that served Brahmin food, is it what I would call "Indian food"? Or is it something different?

My point is that I hate Indian food. I've tried a bunch of it (well, I've tried 4 different dishes at 3 restaurants) and I've never enjoyed the experience. Is Brahmin food different?

(I'm also not huge on Monk beer, for that matter)

No. If it's veggie Indian, that's it. I think. I will ask though since there is no shortage of people with insider knowledge at my company with whom to have lunch.

nervousdog wrote: I agree with you. I actually eat very little soy. The products I mentioned are all made from natural ingredients. Seitan is just wheat and water. Daiya is soy free. Earth balance is 100% plant-based.

Seitan (which is pure gluten) is an ok source of bulk protein, but it's low quality protein as It lacks important amino acids vs meat. Most brands seem to be high in sodium as well. Do you have ways around those issues? Do you add seasoning to it to achieve a desired flavor?

Daisha and Earth Balance products have their own compromises as well. There is no perfect food. Everything we eat has potential drawbacks, especially if it's eaten without moderation. It seems to me that going to a ton of trouble to simulate a food that's naturally and easily available is kind of backwards from the way we were meant to eat, but obviously everybody has their own outlook on this topic. I think it's important though to understand exactly what we're putting in our bodies. Sometimes the "healthy" alternative to a natural food has worse side effects than just eating the natural food in the first place.

I've been slowly reducing the amount of meat I consume for a while, but I find it really hard to go full vegetarian, Ovo-Lacto seems do-able. I tapered off of red meat, then pork, then chicken, and lastly shrimp and fish. Being a musclehead my main concern was consuming adequate amounts of protein and amino acids. I have at least two scoops of whey isolate every day and base the rest of my diet around Lentils, Quinoa, split peas, eggs and milk. If I notice a drop in strength or energy I'll reintroduce some fish.

Good on you for being proactive in trying to improve your long term health.

STM317 wrote:

nervousdog wrote: I agree with you. I actually eat very little soy. The products I mentioned are all made from natural ingredients. Seitan is just wheat and water. Daiya is soy free. Earth balance is 100% plant-based.

Seitan (which is pure gluten) is an ok source of bulk protein, but it's low quality protein as It lacks important amino acids vs meat. Most brands seem to be high in sodium as well. Do you have ways around those issues? Do you add seasoning to it to achieve a desired flavor? Daisha and Earth Balance products have their own compromises as well. There is no perfect food. Everything we eat has potential drawbacks, especially if it's eaten without moderation. It seems to me that going to a ton of trouble to simulate a food that's naturally and easily available is kind of backwards from the way we were meant to eat, but obviously everybody has their own outlook on this topic. I think it's important though to understand exactly what we're putting in our bodies. Sometimes the "healthy" alternative to a natural food has worse side effects than just eating the natural food in the first place.

Just as an example: animals don't taste like pepperoni, you have to add herbs and spices. Add those same things to seitan and you get something that tastes a heck of a lot like pepperoni without the cholesterol.

You said it well: There is no perfect food. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is the right way. Someone asked about going meatless and since I have 20+ years experience I offered some tips. I truly believe everyone should eat what's right for them no matter what it is.

In reply to mtn:

Vegan.

Beer Baron wrote: In reply to mtn: Vegan.

You're no gentleman. You're nothing but a beer baron.

mtn wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: In reply to mtn: Vegan.

You're no gentleman. You're nothing but a beer baron.

You guys are a hoot!

How soon till you become translucent like Michael Stipe?