Don't we have some sailboat guys here?

The missus and I spent this past weekend with some friends at a family house on a tidal river down on the GA coast. The family has a 30' Endeavor sail boat that the patriarch/matriarch spent 6 mos sailing around the Caribbean many years ago. It has been tied to the dock for many years and supposedly an uncle or someone is trying to refit it. Mostly it's a floating dock extension at this point.

We spent Saturday sitting on the sailboat and drinking. I think I'm hooked and we never left the dock. As a lover of the coast who has always wanted to sail but never been on more than a lake....now I want a 30' sailboat to coastal cruise. Weekends and holidays mucking around the ICW in SC, GA, FL...that type of thing. Think floating RV. The Caribbean would be cool...but not for a long, long time. We've been RV trailer campers for many years and love it, and I think this taps that same feeling but takes it to a new level.

So, for those of you who sail - any of you done this kind of coastal cruising? I'm trying to scare up a friend to teach me to sail on the local lakes. I've also been looking at sailing schools. Any thoughts on learning to sail?

I figure my best bet is to get some lessons or experience this summer and then buy something in the 20' trailerable arena next summer. What's something like that to tow? Will an Explorer with a 6700lb rating suffice?

Looking over CL it seems like small 15' daysailers and 20-25' older, decent sail boats are all about the same price - $3k-$5k for good craft in good repair.

My 3-5 year plan is to have a 30' boat on a wet slip on the GA coast in some working shrimp-boat town. How crazy is that plan? FWIW, the wife is on board (har) with this scheme, unlike many of my wild hairs.

So, hit me with that old-time knowledge... I've got a ton of questions....

Mrs. Service was a competitive racer. At the time she was the youngest woman ever to do the Regata Al Sol.

What do you want me to ask her?

I have a seaSprite 23.. full keeled little sailboat with an ondecl length of 22'6" and a weight of 3200 pounds. With it's trailer (assumed to be close to 700 pounds.. I am trailering around 4000 pounds behind my discovery. I can feel the weight there, and it definatly drags the already abysmal mileage down into single digits, but it is completely doable and except for going up hill, rarely need to downshift on the highway.

30' is a good size. It is just large enough to have room without getting the size where all the equipment is larger and more expensive. As a plus, you only spend around $100 to get into the Bahamas. Anything over 30' pays around $300.

Best suggestion.. get some magazines and start reading. "good old boat" and "small craft advisor" are really good as they tend to be the GRM of sailing magazines, they do not preach to the mega-million yachts, but to boats you and I can afford.

The intracoastal in Georgia is a bit of a maze.. but you have Florida not that much further south with her miles of straight coasts, the Keys, and many rivers and canals to sail and explore.

So really, the hardest part is deciding on what style of boat you like and then deciding which boat you want. I like heavy full keeled boats. They are not that fast, they do not "point" as well into the wind, and they do not maneuver as well as a fin keel, but they are more stable and "sturdy" when the wind kicks up and the seas begin to build.

If you do your research, you will find the same designers pop up time and time again. The best ones designed boats for many manufacturers, Alberg, Perry, Ludders, the list goes on and on and on.

uh....Not sure I know enough to even ask....

Okay, how about general. What would she recommend as a plan of attack to go from complete newb to safely handling a 10 meter cruiser on the coast in 3 years?

I had a 22' swing keel sloop for many years. Boat, motor, trailer and normal gear weighed less than 4000#. I would keep it on a mooring in the summer and store in on the trailer in the winter. This kept costs down to a managable level, and I only had to pull it around twice a year.

Slip fees, insurance and maintenance on a 30' boat are nothing to sneeze at, and elbow grease can only go so far to replace currency. A 30-footer could also be a handful to manage without some crew. I was able to single-hand the 22' easily, but I would have needed some significant gear (roller-furling, lazy jacks, etc) to do so on a 30'.

Start with a boating safety class, and then learn how to sail a dingy.

Size does matter, but the basic principle is the same.

Also - hang around the marina on club racing night and see if someone will take you along as crew (or ballast). Just don't get in the way when they tack the boat.

ultraclyde wrote: uh....Not sure I know enough to even ask.... Okay, how about general. What would she recommend as a plan of attack to go from complete newb to safely handling a 10 meter cruiser on the coast in 3 years?

I do power boats and I can tell you the answer to this one.

No, not with out experienced hands. For a good plan of attack I will get her to answer tonight.

ultraclyde wrote: uh....Not sure I know enough to even ask.... Okay, how about general. What would she recommend as a plan of attack to go from complete newb to safely handling a 10 meter cruiser on the coast in 3 years?

First plan of attack.. take some lessons. There is bound to be a yacht club or a charter boat captain down there that also gives lessons. If you are going to learn, best to do it from a professional.

Second: get a safe boating certificate. I think the USCG handles those. Yacht clubs might also

Third. After you have had your lessons, go to the Caribbean and do a bareboat charter. Basically you are renting a boat that is more or less set up for people who really do not know what they are doing (hint, most of them have -lots- of hours on their engines).

Fourth: If you are still interested.. go find your 20ish foot boat and have fun.

While I have always been around sailboats, I took a 20 year hiatus from Sailing. When I decided to get back into it, I bought a (very rotted) 14' day sailor just to get my feet wet (sorry) again. Small boats teach you a -lot- in a small amount of time. They are less forgiving of sloppy handling, react fast to changing wind and tide, and they are a ton of fun to sail when everything is going great

There is an article in this months "small craft advisor" that is worth reading if you want your wife to stay "onboard" with this

I'm mostly a day sailor, the biggest boat I have owned was a Catalina 22 which we kept moored. I think you are on the right track taking lessons and starting with something smaller. You want something with a swing keel if you are launching it. I also agree with mad machine's thinking on full keeled boats for cruising.

Looks into crewing for someone with a larger boat after you get some lessons under your belt.

I would love to do something like you are thinking, but so far it hasn't been in the cards.

Do boat owners or sailing crews ever need/want people to help them fund a trip?

For example, lets say I own a huge 40' yacht, but its getting to be a bit much for me to pay a crew to help me sail around the Caribbean. My boat can easily house 8 people, but I can't pay them.

Does anyone ever say "3 month excursion to caribbean, 6 spots open to non-crew at $2000 per person."

I just got back from a bareboat charter in the BVI with my dad and a couple buddies. Fan-freakin'-tastic time. I am now looking casually for a "family" boat for four. A couple of books you can get for shopping purposes (20 Affordable Sailboats to take you Anywhere). I'd definitely try to sail before purchasing. We found that the 31' Beneteau we chartered was pretty, had all the amenities, but was ill suited for practical use - slow, poor sail habits, weird cabin layout, and some other ergo issues. Taught me a quick lesson- the boat didn't significantly detract from our good time, but I certainly learned that you want to try before you buy.

PHeller wrote: Do boat owners or sailing crews ever need/want people to help them fund a trip? For example, lets say I own a huge 40' yacht, but its getting to be a bit much for me to pay a crew to help me sail around the Caribbean. My boat can easily house 8 people, but I can't pay them. Does anyone ever say "3 month excursion to caribbean, 6 spots open to non-crew at $2000 per person."

I don't see why not, but I don't own a boat. Have you ever checked the sailing forums? There may be a "crew wanted" section. Although, I'd wager that people with nice boats are not wanting for "friends" if you know what I mean. If you're interested, charter a boat- you'll get out of there way cheaper than $2k if you bring a couple buddies along. The British Virgin Islands is damn near all line of sight, and you can eat off the motors if the sailing doesn't work out (or hire a captain for a couple days @$175/day to get you started).

People hitch-sail around the planet all the time. All the usual caveats of room-mates apply only more so cause there is no place to leave for in the middle of a crossing.

Don't expect to get paid until you get some certificates under your belt and are capable of delivering the boat to the owner's destination by yourself.

Good cooks and horny women seem to be the most "in demand" skills.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f127/sailnet-message-board-2059.html

What are good places to find sailing charters in and around the Caribbean?

I used BVI yacht charters, and they were good. Also in the BVI, Moorings and Sunsail seemed popular. Was glad to not have the ads all over our boat though. They are generally all the same cost. I liked BVI yacht (no affiliation, and no experience with other co's) partly because they only had about 20 boats, which gave the whole thing a more personal feel. We paid $2800 all in (insurance, tax, etc) for a 7 day charter of a 31 Beneteau. I believe it was advertised at $2250 before all the tax/insurance stuff. Sounds ridiculous, but was totally worth it.

One bit of advice. Make sure you do the things your Mrs wants and needs to keep her on board with your plan. Life aboard ship can get very cramped and if your vessel needs constant upkeep it can wear on the fun aspect so many of us envision of life afloat.

Otherwise, start smaller and work up. You're right there are lots of easy trailering and low maintenance boats on CL for 3-5K. I did learn the hard way though that there is nothing more expensive than a too cheap boat.

Are there any sailboat racing series in your area? Here in Michigan the racers are always looking for deckhands/ballast. It is a good way to learn and gets you around boats that are often for sale.

I caution one main point. You spent some days aboard a boat, at dock. To many, this is the great part. Actually moving the boat can be a lot of work.

A common stereotype of sailing is white paints and ascots. Oh, how I chuckle when someone shows up on a boat for the first time in white pants or girls with heels.
I have raced boats for years and proper attire is the oldest pair of shorts you own, a t-shirt, preferably gotten free in a bar, some shoes with good grip and some gloves.
Most things done on a sailboat are manual operations aided with a bit of mechanical advantage. It's work.
In addition, much of boat ownership is just working on your boat. You have to learn to fix things yourself because it is cost prohibitive to actually pay someone to repair most thing (certainly a boat that can not be put on a car/trailer and brought to a shop.)

Not trying to discourage but rather encourage to actually get out there before sinking funds. Another piece of advise, before getting into the cruising life, intentionally go out sailing in bad weather. Most people don't and when they get caught in that weather they are quickly over their head. The adage is, "If you never go sailing in bad weather, how will you know how to sail in bad weather."

On the boat I race, we say we race by the calendar, not the weather. If you invite someone new to an upcoming race, they will often ask, "what's the weather going to be like?" My wife is one of these people. Our answer is, "I don't know but that is the day the calendar says."
There is no such thing as bad weather, just bad gear...and it's all about the gear.

Good points, all. Not much on the nets about local lake sailing, and being a three hour drive from the coast will mean learning and practicing on the lakes at first. I know a couple guys that have dinghy sail boats locally, so I'm hoping there is some kind of active community that's not on the web.

After doing some looking, I'm hoping to get some time on a local lake boat and get some basic instruction from friends. I'll go ahead and do a boaters safety course too. There's an ASA accredited marina in St Simons that offeres the ASA basic keelboat class over a long weekend for $550/person. Either at the end of this summer or beginning of next I, my wife, and a friend who's interested will take the course together. Then maybe next summer I can look for a trailer sailor boat of my own. Run the lakes for the summer and then start working tidal creeks and such the next year.

I'm definitely not the white shorts and martini type. The coast I love is the blue collar, shrimpboat world. I'm not interested in racing except as a skill building exercise, and I refuse to call it yachting. Hard work is fine by me, particularly when getting myself somewhere. I ride a bicycle over 1000 miles a year. I get that part. And I wouldn't be hanging out here if I didn't like to fix it myself. Having said that, I've looked at a bunch of ads for 'project boats' and I get the screaming mimis. If I can't sail it the day I buy it, I ain't buyin' it!

I get what you're saying about weather, too.

Good thread with good input so far.

Here is another thread that has some more GRM sailboat discussion.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/my-sailboat/66889/page1/

JohnRW1621 wrote: girls with heels.

You leave the Bow Fluff out of this!

When the heels arrive, the first thing you encourage is for them to take them off. Or, the first thing you encourage them to take off is the heels, either way.

Along those lines another sailboat wisdom:
Girls wont lay down in a boat they can't stand up in.

The best kind of boat is the one owned by your friend.

Flight Service wrote:

JohnRW1621 wrote: girls with heels.

You leave the Bow Fluff out of this!

Sea Muff?