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Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
11/24/11 3:08 p.m.
Toyman01 wrote: Of the 1.5 billion Islamic people in the world, most of them are just regular ordinary people that want the world to leave them alone, just like the majority of Christians. The crazy one are just the ones that make the news.

ZOMG1!1!1!1! We have a WINNAR! But unfortunately all over the world, just like in this country, the vast middle never gets into power. Only the far end of the spectrum zealots have the 'fire in the belly'.

Way back when Chernobyl happened, I was listening to the radio with a guy I worked for and he said 'It's great that happened to those Commie bastards' or something to that effect. I said something to the effect that the people displaced by that accident were no different than he and I, i.e. we just wanted to be able to live our lives in relative peace. He said 'The only good Russian is a dead Russian', of course there was no sense in pointing out they were actually Ukranian.

Taiden
Taiden Dork
11/24/11 4:11 p.m.
Curmudgeon wrote:
Toyman01 wrote: Of the 1.5 billion Islamic people in the world, most of them are just regular ordinary people that want the world to leave them alone, just like the majority of Christians. The crazy one are just the ones that make the news.
ZOMG1!1!1!1! We have a WINNAR! But unfortunately all over the world, just like in this country, the vast middle never gets into power. Only the far end of the spectrum zealots have the 'fire in the belly'. Way back when Chernobyl happened, I was listening to the radio with a guy I worked for and he said 'It's great that happened to those Commie bastards' or something to that effect. I said something to the effect that the people displaced by that accident were no different than he and I, i.e. we just wanted to be able to live our lives in relative peace. He said 'The only good Russian is a dead Russian', of course there was no sense in pointing out they were actually Ukranian.

I had a friend just like that. One day I told him that he was an ignorant redneck, he responded with, "I know I'm an ignorant redneck, but I'm not going to change." We got along much better after that.

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
11/24/11 4:59 p.m.

If you think that then you really know nothing about the Muslim religion.

And just look around the Detroit area where the muslim population is the majority in many small communities. Just go there and see how you're treated and read their news to see what they are working for, law wise.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
11/24/11 6:43 p.m.

Dang. I take one little trip to Houston and a two page thread pops up.

Anyway, I'm just SO GLAD that we elected a president that the whole world loves (kissy-kissy) and is going to stop all that war stuff. And balance the budget, because that's real important and BUSH had all that deficit spending and The One is NOT BUSH, right?

Anyway, I think I mentioned a few weeks ago talking with my friend from Syria. He said that the US had already started bombing Syria, knocking out the Syrian air force and heavy weapons. We just didn't year about it in the news.

bastomatic
bastomatic Dork
11/24/11 7:18 p.m.
carguy123 wrote: If you think that then you really know nothing about the Muslim religion. And just look around the Detroit area where the muslim population is the majority in many small communities. Just go there and see how you're treated and read their news to see what they are working for, law wise.

Oh please. I live in the Detroit area, I work with a majority Muslim workforce, and you have made it obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Go meet some Muslims, go to a muslim area, visit a mosque, get some experience outside your little Fox News world, and get back with us then.

Where I live, women are treated respectfully, the average muslim thinks Sharia law is ancient history, and Christians are treated much better than the average white person treats a Muslim.

There are certainly nuts around here that believe in fundamental law, they've been hoarding guns and have bombed buildings and killed civilians to try to overthrow the government. They're self-identified Christians like this fella.

bastomatic
bastomatic Dork
11/24/11 7:20 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: Anyway, I think I mentioned a few weeks ago talking with my friend from Syria. He said that the US had already started bombing Syria, knocking out the Syrian air force and heavy weapons. We just didn't year about it in the news.

I'm sorry if I don't believe "your friend in Syria" when it comes to international news.

Duke
Duke SuperDork
11/24/11 7:30 p.m.

I've been wondering, for about 10 years now: Is this sudden resurgence of religious fundamentalism (of all flavors worldwide) the death throes / last gasp of organized religion? Its force is weakening, but it's not going down without a fight?

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/24/11 7:41 p.m.

one of my best friends is a Muslim. Not only is he a practicing member of his faith, but very much involved with his mosque.. doing a LOT of work for the underprivledged.

His oldest son just graduated (before the overthrow) from a Islamic School in Egypt.

Him and his family are the sweetist and most gentle people you will meet. Because they know I am single and hours away from my nearest family, I often get invited over for holidays and the like. (no, not muslim holidays)

And before anybody asks.. I am not a christian either. I am a Buddhist with Taoist leanings.. but I get accepted as an equal even if my particular outview on life is not "of the book"

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
11/24/11 7:42 p.m.

Lessee, I can trust my friend, a PhD professor at a Major University, who talks to his family in Syria, or I can trust the world's News Media. Humm. Lemme think about that one.

By the way, Bastomatic, Timothy McVeigh was not a Christian. He was an atheist. Look it up, but you'll have to go outside of MSNBC.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 Dork
11/24/11 8:19 p.m.
Duke wrote: I've been wondering, for about 10 years now: Is this sudden resurgence of religious fundamentalism (of all flavors worldwide) the death throes / last gasp of organized religion? Its force is weakening, but it's not going down without a fight?

God let's hope that's the case. The part about the death throes of organized religion, that is.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 Dork
11/24/11 8:22 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: Lessee, I can trust my friend, a PhD professor at a Major University, who talks to his family in Syria, or I can trust the world's News Media. Humm. Lemme think about that one.

So how did he know it was Americans bombing? Not to be a dick troll here, but did the bomb say "berkeley you, from the USA?" And if so, how does this jive with your low "kissy kissy" opinion of our (our) president? In one post you appear to chide him for taking a somewhat measured and peace-centric foreign policy toward muslim nations, and another you say his armed forces are bombing Syria. Which is it?

bastomatic
bastomatic Dork
11/24/11 9:12 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: By the way, Bastomatic, Timothy McVeigh was not a Christian. He was an atheist. Look it up, but you'll have to go outside of MSNBC.

A lot of these guys grabbed their anti-gov views from the siege at Waco, believing the government was waging war on Christianity.

McVeigh, raised catholic, professed to believe in God even after conviction, and took Catholic sacrament prior to execution. I doubt his atheist street cred.

His buddy Terry Nichols, a self-professed born-again Christian.

Also I can refer you to other local militia/Christian groups like the Hutaree.

Extremist religion promotes terrorism, and there are more extremist Christians in this country than Muslims.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/24/11 10:46 p.m.
Teh E36 M3 wrote:
Duke wrote: I've been wondering, for about 10 years now: Is this sudden resurgence of religious fundamentalism (of all flavors worldwide) the death throes / last gasp of organized religion? Its force is weakening, but it's not going down without a fight?
God let's hope that's the case. The part about the death throes of organized religion, that is.

Considering that in most places in the world, church going has been on a steady decline for decades? It is entirely possible.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/25/11 6:46 a.m.

Anyone that judges an entire group of billions of people because of the actions of a fanatical few is an idiot.

oldsaw
oldsaw SuperDork
11/25/11 8:06 a.m.
Toyman01 wrote: Anyone that judges an entire group of billions of people because of the actions of a fanatical few is an idiot.

Great!

I can maintain my blissful ignorance and still pass judgement on liberals, conservatives, atheists, religious zealots and, oh, Miata fans, too.

Life is goooood.

BAMF
BAMF Reader
11/25/11 8:34 a.m.
bastomatic wrote: Extremist religion promotes terrorism, and there are more extremist Christians in this country than Muslims.

+1 and QFT.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
11/25/11 9:07 a.m.

There are domestic extremists of every stripe. The ones that are really high on the FBI watch list are the ecoterrorists. Right behind them are the right wingers and religious fanatics. But overseas it's the jihadists who are number one on the hit parade.

This doesn't mean every Muslim is a terrorist. But let's face it, the majority of terrorists outside the US are Muslim. I try my best to be objective and not paint all of a group with the same brush, but facts are facts.

From http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005

In keeping with a longstanding trend, domestic extremists carried out the majority of terrorist incidents during this period. Twenty three of the 24 recorded terrorist incidents were perpetrated by domestic terrorists. With the exception of a white supremacist’s firebombing of a synagogue in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, all of the domestic terrorist incidents were committed by special interest extremists active in the animal rights and environmental movements. The acts committed by these extremists typically targeted materials and facilities rather than persons. The sole international terrorist incident in the United States recorded for this period involved an attack at the El Al ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport, which claimed the lives of two victims.

The terrorism preventions for 2002 through 2005 present a more diverse threat picture. Eight of the 14 recorded terrorism preventions stemmed from right-wing extremism, and included disruptions to plotting by individuals involved with the militia, white supremacist, constitutionalist and tax protestor, and anti-abortion movements. The remaining preventions included disruptions to plotting by an anarchist in Bellingham, Washington, who sought to bomb a U.S. Coast Guard station; a plot to attack an Islamic center in Pinellis Park, Florida; and a plot by prison-originated, Muslim convert group to attack U.S. military, Jewish, and Israeli targets in the greater Los Angeles area. In addition, three preventions involved individuals who sought to provide material support to foreign terrorist organizations, including al-Qa’ida, for attacks within the United States.

Whereas the violent global jihadist movement manifested itself primarily in terrorism preventions in the United States from 2002 through 2005, internationally the movement claimed major attacks against U.S. and Western targets that resulted in American casualties. Most of these incidents were perpetrated by regional jihadist groups operating in primarily Muslim countries, and included attacks committed by Indonesia-based Jemaah Islamiya and al-Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula. The coordinated suicide bombing of London’s mass transit system by homegrown jihadists, however, brought the violent jihadist movement and the tactic of suicide bombing to a major European capital.

rotard
rotard Reader
11/25/11 9:31 a.m.
BAMF wrote:
carguy123 wrote: Their ultimate goal is an all muslim world with the countries run by muslim religious law. It's called Sharia. Sharia is the moral code and religious law of Islam.
For some uneducated people and religious fanatics in that part of the world, global Sharia is the goal. To attribute that to all Muslims is as ignorant as saying Catholics want the world to be run by the Vatican.
carguy123 wrote: They have no separation of church and state, as a matter of fact they believe the church ought to run the state.
There is strong separation of church and state in Turkey, a predominantly Muslim populated country.
carguy123 wrote: Sharia deals with many topics addressed by secular law, including crime, politics and economics, as well as personal matters such as sexual intercourse, hygiene, diet, prayer, and fasting. Do you want the government telling you how, when and who you can have sex with?
The government already does say who I can or cannot have sex with. There are age restrictions, sex between same sex partners was illegal not that long ago in many states. Hell, Oscar Wilde got thrown in jail for that. Long story short, there are plenty of power hungry religious zealots of every stripe. They make a point of getting their followers to support the notion that religion should be law.

Out of curiosity, have you spent any time with these people?

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
11/25/11 11:03 a.m.
bastomatic wrote:
carguy123 wrote: If you think that then you really know nothing about the Muslim religion. And just look around the Detroit area where the muslim population is the majority in many small communities. Just go there and see how you're treated and read their news to see what they are working for, law wise.
There are certainly nuts around here that believe in fundamental law, they've been hoarding guns and have bombed buildings and killed civilians to try to overthrow the government. They're self-identified Christians like this fella.

Minor fail: your own link refutes your statement.

Let this be a lesson in quality control, folks.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
11/25/11 2:31 p.m.
bastomatic wrote: Extremist religion promotes terrorism, and there are more extremist Christians in this country than Muslims.

So your claim is that there are more Christian terrorists in the US than Muslim terrorists, right?

What a crock.

BAMF
BAMF Reader
11/26/11 9:34 a.m.
rotard wrote:
BAMF wrote: Long story short, there are plenty of power hungry religious zealots of every stripe. They make a point of getting their followers to support the notion that religion should be law.
Out of curiosity, have you spent any time with these people?

By these people, are you meaning the statistically rare Muslim who is actually engaging in terrorism? If so, I have not. Nor has anyone else in this thread, it can probably be safely said.

Have I spent time among religious people who feel as though they need to "reclaim America"? Absolutely. To be honest they scare me more.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
11/26/11 10:50 a.m.

BAMF, you are demonstrating an interesting affinity for accusing people of making broad sweeping statements by making broad sweeping statements.

BAMF
BAMF Reader
11/27/11 12:38 p.m.

Not trying to be too broad or sweeping, but we're talking about pretty vague and broad stuff in this thread.

In all honesty, I'm not terribly concerned about Islamic extremists. I'm more likely to die in a car accident than at the hands of a mass murderer. Frankly, I'm more concerned by the power hungry in our government who have turned terrorists into an easy to exploit boogeyman.

Of similar concern, are the folks who want a Christian based theocracy in this country, and who live and vote in the same place I do. Having grown up in Kansas, and seeing how feasible it is to roll back science education standards, even in this day and age, I have little tolerance of, or sympathy for, fundamentalists, regardless of brand.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
11/27/11 12:58 p.m.

Like I said- pretty broad.

I know hundreds of Christians, most of them conservative southern oftentimes Baptist.

NONE of the ones I know want a theocracy. None of them are terrorists.

There are at least as many power hungry liberal political extremists as there are conservative political extremists. Environmentalism or racial divisiveness are just as exploited by liberal politicos as terrorism is by conservative.

I also know some people who support proposals like Kansas'. Most just want the right to consider alternative theories which do not fit with the mainstream theories without having particular ones (with some legitimate related questions) shoved down their throats.

If you'd like to interpret that as extremist or theocratic, oh well. Just don't be surprised when people call you a liberal or an extremist, or are offended at your lack of tolerance of opinions that differ from your own.

fifty
fifty Reader
11/27/11 1:17 p.m.
SVreX wrote: I also know some people who support proposals like Kansas'. Most just want the right to consider alternative theories which do not fit with the mainstream theories without having particular ones (with some legitimate related questions) shoved down their throats.

Then their correct place is in the parochial school system.

As you know, State schools can discuss religion, but can't show favoritism towards one particular religion or denomination. There is also a place in school science for "theories" (a word used in the context of the Scientific Method) but not for "theories" (used in the sense of faith, wishful thinking or junk science).

Regarding Syria, I also have a Syrian buddy. Nice guy, his kids go to school with my kids. He says the US has not intervened in any way. His reasoning? No oil.

It's a miserable situation, and I feel for the people who are suffering through it.

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