In reply to STM317:
Also, a 38' span pushes the limits of what can be done with wood (considering snow load). It would need to be steel, or have large beams (which also decrease height and add cost)
In reply to STM317:
Also, a 38' span pushes the limits of what can be done with wood (considering snow load). It would need to be steel, or have large beams (which also decrease height and add cost)
SVreX wrote: In reply to STM317: Right. But the lift in the center eats up floor space.
This. Don't underestimate how wide a 2-post lift is. They are great for working on a car, but they suck up a lot of space if working on a car isn't the main function of the garage. That is the main reason I want a MaxJack - I'm willing to give up the lifting height for the ability to move the posts out of the way when I don't need them (which will be 95% of the time).
In reply to SVreX:
Maybe you can get by with less floor space if the loft provides enough storage/hangout area? I'd really need to sketch it all out in both configurations to grasp it. Typically, the vertical space is what most people neglect to use efficiently. Since we're limited on footprint (and height) efficiently using the space in all 3 dimensions will be important.
With maximum height of 15', loft is not gonna be a hangout space.
Unless we are talking about crawling, and sitting on bean bags.
12" thick roof system, 12" thick floor system means the maximum open space is 13'.
Since the first floor probably needs to be a minimum of 8' tall, the loft is only 5' tall at its HIGHEST point.
In reply to STM317:
...also, if the loft is a hangout space, then it needs a real staircase. More floor space lost on the first floor.
re: dimensions
My garage is roughly 29 x 29 (841sq ft) Even if I could change the dimensions and retain the same square footage, I wouldn't. I don't have the roof constraints to deal with though... mine is in my basement.
Yeah... with the height limit, the loft will be storage and nothing else. I would just leave a section of it open to be accessed by a ladder. Depending on how thing lay out, maybe a pulley system to lift heavier things up. But in reality, plastic totes is more likely.
If a basement is out, but storage and hangout space is a priority, maybe the space in front of the lift could be sunk by a few feet and then a loft installed above. Getting to that space through the lift space would be tough anyway, and the foundation is likely going to have to go down 48" or more so two of the walls are going to be there already.
ProDarwin wrote: re: dimensions My garage is roughly 29 x 29 (841sq ft) Even if I could change the dimensions and retain the same square footage, I wouldn't. I don't have the roof constraints to deal with though... mine is in my basement.
How do you use the space? What is your reasoning?
At this point I am ok with loft space just for storage - it was less of a priority and more of a 'wouldn't it be cool if?'
Some stupid thoughts, but hey, we're still in the "throwing ideas around" phase, right?
How's the drainage? Could the floor be excavated lower to give you more usable indoor height?
Would you have the option to do a pit instead of a lift? (Local codes here wouldn't allow that, especially in residential, but... your rules may be different.)
Robbie wrote:ProDarwin wrote: re: dimensions My garage is roughly 29 x 29 (841sq ft) Even if I could change the dimensions and retain the same square footage, I wouldn't. I don't have the roof constraints to deal with though... mine is in my basement.How do you use the space? What is your reasoning?
I use it a number of ways. It can have a car on each side, parked, like a normal, non-GRM person would do. Usually right side is the car work side. Left side is a parking spot, lawn stuff, bikes, etc.
The reason I say I like the dimensions is that 29 feet is a really good width. I can open the doors on both sides of 2 cars without worry about hitting walls or the other car/door. Also enough to get at cars from the sides without feeling really constrained.
Its a decent depth too. On the right side I have an Olympic lifting set (not in pic) that stows against the wall under the pullup bar. I pull in just enough to get inside the garage and I still have plenty of space to do lifts & crossfit stuff in between the car and workbench without worry about hitting something when I drop the bar and it bounces everywhere.
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipMq3GquEr_Nvu1rm0U799_Uuox_5f1uVJbjyV3g
I think I'd make it "Ell" shaped.
38' is not a useful depth. You can't put 2 decent sized cars in that and still have work space.
I'd make the main area 22 x 25, and behind the lift bay I'd add an 11 x 25 tail. In the back of the tail, I'd put another garage door. It would give ventilation, and allow projects to be pushed out the back door and hidden from view.
That would give you 3 legit parking spaces, 2 of them end to end. It would also maximize the square footage that was tallest. It would also create a "patio" area in the back, which could easily have a roof put over it one weekend when Code Enforcement wasn't looking.
Fwiw, my 30x40 shop has a 12' deep loft across one short end with stairs in the middle. Upstairs is all storage and under the loft one side is my tool room and the other my office. My working space is about 28x30, and it's just about right for two bays.
Originally I had planned on trying to get more in the space, but it just doesn't work for more than two spots, and if I pull the trigger on a lift it's for sure just two bays.
Edit: I'd probably end up with what Paul suggested too, though I would stretch out to whatever minimum width across the front allows for a 10' and a 12' wide door with whatever they need between them for strength. Double 10's is all right, but working on a trailer or the like having a 12' wide door is well worth it.
See if you can go ahead and cover the rear patio area now too. Some places go by square feet covered and some by square feet enclosed, and a covered outdoor area might meet your hangout needs. Also consider a garage door or even wide French doors to let you roll through the single deep bay to park back there.
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is if you haven't done it yet, go take a look at Jack Olsen's garage. It will give you a lot of ideas for space saving storage, plus it's just cool. 
He also has an in-floor platform lift; it may or may not be an option for you but it does work well with certain types of vehicles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lCrlVhwHnE Jack posts here occasionally but has a lot more information over on the garage journal forum.
As far as lift height goes, why not plan on something like the Bend-Pak XPR-9S-LP? It fits in a 10' ceiling just fine and can lift to >6'. How tall are you? Would a 6' lifted height clear your head? There's no overhead connections between the posts so that gives you some flexibility in vehicle height.
http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/two-post-lifts/xpr-9s-lp.aspx
I do agree though that maximizing the ceiling height in the lift area is best.
Just a sample picture...
If you put on a garage patio area like above, does that patio count into your Sq ft total allowable size?
As a patio it still provides carport like storage but as mentioned by others, this could easily be turned into indoor space once completed and zoning stops paying attention. Especially if it can not be seen from the road.
It sounds like you're planning exactly what I'm building in the magazine, so let me know if you have any questions as far as how/why. I think my building is just barely under 15', too.
And let me recommend Master Garage Builders, too. Best garage kit ever, and they'd deliver to you.
This is a big project, btw. I just came in from sanding drywall. 
You bet your bum it's a big project.
I look back at the two years it took to build mine, ans I have no idea where I got the energy from. My father lasted a year, and my father-in-law lasted six months. My hat is off to the construction trades; I don't ever want to do this again.
John Welsh wrote: Just a sample picture...
This is a good point. Where I live, there is a sqft limitation. I assumed that meant the interior of the building, but when our plans were submitted, we found out that it was sq ft "under roof", so we had to make our porch overhang smaller to get just under the requirement.
Also, +1 to DCulberson's BendPak suggestion. I've had my eyes on that exact model for a few months now. It's not as flexible as the MaxJak, but it does have all of the benefits of a standard lift without being 12 ft tall.
"Under roof" is an odd interpretation for square footage.
Front porch? Side stoop? How about eave overhangs?
I know that is sometimes used, but I'd argue it. No architect would call that "building square footage". It's clearly just a ploy on the part of Code Enforcement to increase the permit fees and tax base.
One other angle...
Some communities define permit square footage as any floored area under roof.
If so, leave the floor dirt.
Note, these determinations will usually be done by your architect. I don't recommend asking a lot of questions like this of your building department. It will just raise suspicions.
I did already ask (last Friday) if a 'covered porch' was included in the accessory SQFT limit of 850 or not - since somewhere down the line the wife and I would like a covered back porch.
The building department said that it was included. I have not been able to find that in writing in the zoning regs though. And I don't think it would have really drawn too much attention to the garage since it was a pointed question about covering a porch on the house. We can always do an awning or something 'not permanent' to get our covered porch, or make it a 3-season room to make it part of the house and therefore not accessory SQFT.
Tom Suddard wrote: It sounds like you're planning exactly what I'm building in the magazine, so let me know if you have any questions as far as how/why. I think my building is just barely under 15', too. And let me recommend Master Garage Builders, too. Best garage kit ever, and they'd deliver to you. This is a big project, btw. I just came in from sanding drywall.
Thought they were just local to FL! That must have been the concrete guy Stacey. I'll look them up now.
I learned a few years back that the best tool for mudding/taping/sanding drywall was a checkbook. I'll screw the panels on, but holy crap does the rest of the work take an experienced hand.
You'll need to log in to post.
