Ebay - shudder!

Just saw this posted on the Solstice forum.

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/new-2009-srt8-challenger-sells-29-1k-34598/

Fits right in line with the discussion. Basically the OP won a auction for a '09 Challenger SRT-8 for 29K and now the dealer won't honor the no-reserve auction price. It's been posted to over 200 forums and is up to 95 pages, so it's a large thread.

That was a favourite in Germany a few years back - several dealers put cars on ebay without a reserve, they didn't make the money the dealer wanted so they refused to honour the sale.

Didn't go down too well in court, that idea.

I hope he forces them to honour that deal. They can claim stupidity, but they're not new ebayers. They gambled, and lost. Buyer won the car, fair and square.

Completely agree with the "they gambled, they lost" statement.

That said, with about 750 transactions on ebay, I still find that vehicles are the ones that cause most problems. Maybe people who buy $10 beerlooms are generally not too bothered about what they get but I've had some right howlers when it came to cheap cars. And it's always the cheap cars that are causing trouble.

One of the classic ones was a 20 year old bike that had some discolouration on the frame from an old battery spill. Guy wins it on ebay, comes down with a trailer, sees discolouration (that was mentioned in the auction), gets upset "because he couldn't see it on the pictures". I pointed out to him that I stated in the ad that I'll be happy to email him larger photos of any part of the bike that he wanted. "Oh, I'm on dial-up, that would've been too expensive to download". But he made a 200 mile round trip. I politely invited him to put some distance between the two of us. Bike then sold to someone who was overjoyed with it and it subsequently featured in an online classic bike mag here a couple of times as the new owner tore into it.

Second one was a rather ropey Volvo 164 that I bought on ebay, figured that trying to fix up five cars was not what I needed so I put it back on ebay. Local-ish guy wins the auction, doesn't get in touch, calls me three days later "can I pick it up in an hour", around noon on a weekday, no less. "No sorry, I'm working 60 miles away as it says in the ad but you can pick it up tonight". Of course he doesn't turn up, I get annoyed and call his number. Get his wife who tells me "oh, he's driven past it and doesn't like it". Drop the next bidder an email, guy goes "we'll be there Saturday morning", turns up with a trailer, hands over the cash and goes "cool, we'll start restoring it next weekend".

Time to dig up the old thread.

I sold a bike on eBay. The guy paid immediately. I shipped the following morning. Apparently the bike arrived to the purchaser with a crack in the aluminum part of the fork where the front wheel attaches. The guy immediately threatens to have eBay charge me back for the entire transaction cost including shipping. I respond very nicely apologizing for his trouble and letting him know I have filed a claim with Fedex. I email him again a day later letting him know that Fedex is looking at the claim. I haven't been able to get any further information out of Fedex in the week thereafter, so yesterday I emailed the guy asking what an acceptable resolution might be (since I had not heard from him other than his original angry email). He responded that he immediately wants a full refund of the purchase price and shipping and I should pay him to ship the bike back to me.

Now, if I did that I would be out about $70 in round trip shipping costs, $40 in eBay costs, and Paypal's cut of $15(?). I'll be an optimist and assume that Fedex is going to buy me a new fork, so I'll at least have a bike in the same condition as before. I understand the guy's frustration, but he seems to be asking a bit much. By the way, a replacement fork off of eBay looks to be under $50, including shipping.

So folks, what is a fair resolution for both parties? Is there anything I should do to protect myself? I want to treat this guy fairly and honestly; I just don't want to take an unnecessary financial beating.

Marty! wrote: Just saw this posted on the Solstice forum. http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f5/new-2009-srt8-challenger-sells-29-1k-34598/ Fits right in line with the discussion. Basically the OP won a auction for a '09 Challenger SRT-8 for 29K and now the dealer won't honor the no-reserve auction price. It's been posted to over 200 forums and is up to 95 pages, so it's a large thread.

I used to work for a company that routinely sold parts on eBay to supplement what the sales guys couldn't sell on the phone. My first day on the job the owner asked me to go home that night, open an eBay account and shill bid up a bunch of items that weren't going to sell for the price he wanted. I told him I didn't have a computer at home. He had already gotten several of his own account closed for shill bidding.

Ebay is like knocking on a stranger's door, you don't know what's gonna pop out or shoot at you until it's too late. I'm spoiled because most folks here play nice.

Dan

I used to do a lot of buying and selling on ebay.. since the new rules came into being.. not so much

For us owners of rare and uncommon vehicles your choices are grossly inflated specialty dealer prices or grabbing NOS and used pieces via ebay. I buy via ebay at least once a week. I was burned once.....in 1998. I have done my fair share of drunken bidding and always pay up.

Hell my car should have an ebaymotors windshield banner with how much I have pieced it out of late night "I wonder if that would fit" sessions.

I particularly like mathewsparts and europarts4auction ebay stores. They buy old store stock and put it up on the bay for pennies on the dollar. Timing chains for $4 shipped? why yes please. Gasket sets for under $10? thank you, may I have some more?

In reply to Otto Maddox:

In defense of the buyer, it's hard to imagine how FedEx could have damaged a dropout on a remotely well-packaged bike. If I were him, I'd have strong suspicions about the state of the bike when FedEx got it. Is there any chance that it was cracked already and you hadn't noticed?

I can also see how it might put a bad taste in his mouth over the whole thing. How did the frame fare when the dropout got hit hard enough to crack? The headset?

The upshot is that while I think the guy should've started somewhere way on the calmer side of threats to force something, if I were him I think I'd feel justified in wanting to 'undo' the entire deal, and that it shouldn't cost me money to find a serious flaw in something you sold. Remember, his situation is that he just gave you $x for a bike in as-advertised condition, and received one with a cracked dropout, rendering it unusable.

I will cross my fingers that if you're sure that it was okay when it left, that FedEx coughs up for the fork and the cost of having it swapped out (remember, you've gotta move the crown race of the headset to the new forks, and most people don't have the tools or the skill), and maybe even shipping.

IMHO, YMMV, and just in case I've misphrased something, I do not mean in any way to suggest that you fired off a cracked bike and expect the seller to just accept it. I'm just pointing out my guess at the buyer's perspective.

As ransom says, it's quite hard to figure out what really happened - the couriers aren't exactly known for the white gloves treatment of shipped items so I guess anything could have happened.

Has he actually sent a photo of the damage back to you?

OTOH you'd think a reasonable person wouldn't expect you to take the item back but make it right. Heck, take it to the local bike shop, get it inspected, get a quote to fix the shipping damage and work with the seller instead of hiding behind the modem and go all nasty on them.

Thanks for the opinions.

The guy did imply that I probably shipped him a damaged bike on purpose, which is frustrating, but I am trying to leave emotion out of it. And no, I haven't seen any pictures of the bike or the box it came in. I guess I should ask for some.

I can't guarantee the packaging was perfect but i think it was pretty good. The end of the fork was resting in styrofoam about an inch deep when it left my house. I suspect if the bike got tossed around, the fork could have broken through that.

I was suspecting something more like BoxheadTim said - take it to a shop, get an estimate and I pay up (and hopefully Fedex reimburses).

I'd insist on photos of the damage (for starters, to verify that it's the same bike) and the packaging.

You don't have to pay for the return shipping - he does. I've been on both sides of that problem, in each case, the buyer has to ship the item back, and provide a tracking number in order to get the refund from Paypal/or ebay.

one of my friends bought an old Anthrax cd on ebay from a guy in Hong Kong.. when the guy boxed it up, he wrote "ANTHRAX" on the box in big letters.. it made it half way around the world to the USPS distribution center in Minneapolis before someone noticed the word and decided that it had to be a terrorist attack.. they shut down and evacuated the mail center and my friend had some nice people from the FBI call him and come visit him at his house..

that's really the only ebay related story that i have to share..

I was already prepared to be done selling things on ebay when I saw how small my sales price got after ebay and paypal were done with it. But now if I get the bike back, I'll probably part it out. I think it is worth more dead than alive. So, that probably means back to ebay. Ugh.

I asked the guy for pictures yesterday. I haven't yet got his response.

I had a good experience with e-bay recently, here's my e-mail to a seller:

eastcoastmojo said: I am writing to let you know that I did recieve my shoes today. They are exactly as described in the item listing and arrived very quickly after I recieved your e-mail. I am very satisfied with the shoes. Absolutely 100% satisfied with them in fact. However, I do feel that I should discuss another matter with you at this time. The shipping label was not the only label affixed to my package, there was infact, another label that had been applied to the package. This label had a description of the shoes and my name and information printed on it, which is fine, no problems there - that seems like good shipping procedure even if it isn't the final label for shipping. The issue I have is with the word "E36 M3." with a period, which was also printed on that label and fully visible through the shipping label that was applied on top. I can only assume that this statement was in reference to the "pending since 2/5" that was also printed on said label. Normally I don't take offense but I think this was a very careless misuse of a period. I think an exclamation mark would have been more appropriate given the circumstances. Furthermore, I think E36 M3 really packs the biggest punch when it's found in numbers, as in the ever-popular, "E36 M3! E36 M3! E36 M3!", or if it is given a proper lead in, such as "Oh E36 M3!". I think that next time you should consider these alternatives when printing up your in-house correspondence labels. Either that or buy some thicker shipping labels to go on top so that these little things won't irritate the customer, because you know some people will get bent out of shape about that kind of thing. In summary I would like to thank you for your outstanding service, fast shipping once you got on it, good e-mail communication, and my favorite of all, thanks for leaving positive feedback after receiving payment and not waiting until I have left positive feedback for you. I think that is the mark of a truly professional business. I have left positive feedback for you, I will definately consider buying from you again, and I can't wait to see what you print on there next time!

Lesley wrote: You don't have to pay for the return shipping - he does. I've been on both sides of that problem, in each case, the buyer has to ship the item back, and provide a tracking number in order to get the refund from Paypal/or ebay.

That's why, whenever you buy something, and it's sent via the mail, never damage the shipping documents/envelope. If it needs to go back, you can repackage it, and put return to sender on it, give it back to the mail, and have it returned at no cost to you.

Sometimes the eBay seller is in the right, even when it looks wrong.

Back before Christmas (12/17), I ordered a poster from a seller in Britain. Hadn't seen it as of January 10, so I Emailed him. He said the British postal service shuts down for the holiday (maybe this should go in the unions thread! ) and to allow a few more days. As of January 25, still no poster so I Emailed him with that information. He shot me back an apology, said he'd ship another one and about a week later I received my poster. All the communications were nice and civil. Cool.

So I come home last night 2/18, there's another poster in the mailbox. I owe the guy an apology and for a second poster, big time.

Yeah, the UK postal service gets surprised by Christmas every year. I still have a couple of magazines sent over from the UK and the January issue (published in late December) took over six weeks to arrive when it normally takes 2-3...

I guess I got lucky. I bought a diecast model tractor from a guy in the UK about a week into December. I had it less than 10 days later, via the post office.