economy question.

curtis73 wrote: Jobs and the economy feel the same to me. I feel like we're so stuck in our training. So you spent five years as a *textile manufacturing equipment repair technician.* That doesn't mean you have to find THAT job again. Find yourself out of work? Put an ad on Craigslist that you own a paintbrush and a roller. "You buy the paint, I'll put it on your wall." Put in an application at Starbucks. I spent 7 years managing auto repair shops and was in charge of 13 of them (7 of which I was able to get off the ground and oversee their genesis). I have an interview on Monday at a local chain of new car dealerships. If they offer me an executive management position, great. If they offer me the position of toilet scrubber and I need the money, I'll take it.

Dude, knock it off! You're letting the secret out. You weren't supposed to tell.

My mom used to tell us "I don't worry about my kids being successful because no one else is trying". Lot of truth in that.

Good luck on your interview!

My mom used to tell us "I don't worry about my kids being successful because no one else is trying". Lot of truth in that.

That's really good.

My little addition to the discussion, from the vantage point of an engineer working at an aircraft company that has a lot of product out there in the marketplace; rich folks are doing pretty fine and the financing is back to somewhat close to where it was a few years ago. So birds are moving into customer's hands again, not at 2008-esque rates but it's happening. Engineering jobs are happening again, at least for lower-level folks like the college grads. Company I work for is fighting for talent actually, the pay here isn't as hot as other shops so we're being passed over a lot from what I'm seeing.

I think there's a lot of uncertainty at the corporate level in this country; corporations are scared of showing red on the balance sheet and having unhappy stock holders, so that makes some decisions harder to make like hiring and budgets.

Editorial Section: I see a lot of blame leveled at the President in these sorts of discussions. I believe that thinking is foolish at best, other much more negative things at worst. We've hit peak oil production or did a couple years ago, and with an expanding world economy (China) the stuff isn't going to get cheaper or stay the same price with inflation adjusting, it will become more and more rare. My hope is that engineering and research can yield new energy sources and better methods to transfer that energy but old ways of thought are going to have to change.

Something else; we consume too much. I'm talking about Americans here mostly but it's going to have to change all over. The days of getting a new cell phone every 6 months just because and not recycling everything we can and on and on... that has to stop. I have a very intelligent friend who, when faced with a family financial crisis (underemployement, basically, and school debts) got rid of her smart phone to save a little each month. Now she's back to the smart phone and considering giving plasma to help make payments to AT&T to keep her data plan. I don't think this sort of odd prioritization is rare.

Kudos to Curtis!

And I have a real problem with the unemployment figures that keep geting tossed around.

Why? Because I have a friend and a relative who are both collecting unemployment by their own choosing. My nephew is the worst. He gets a job and works at it for ~ a year and then somehow manages to get laid off/fired or something and ends up on unemployment. He doesn't even try to find a new job untill the unemployment is about to run out then he will find a job for another year.

He has been doing this for the last 20 years. And this is the second time my friend has done this that I know of.

Every time I see unemployment numbers I wonder how many are like these two. And when they talk about extending unemployment then I get really pissed off.

So if are gasoline usage is plummeting how is it that sales are increasing and things are looking up? Sales are not measured in items sold, but in dollars. Just because the dollar is worth less and less and buys less and less it makes it seem like the economy is getting better. I think it is pretty much a bunch of bs and spin.

If don't agree, then ok, we are all entitled to our opinions.

pres589 wrote: I think there's a lot of uncertainty at the corporate level in this country; corporations are scared of showing red on the balance sheet and having unhappy stock holders, so that makes some decisions harder to make like hiring and budgets.

They sure don't seem to have a problem paying their Execs 7-figures, though. If I worked as an "average" person at Apple making $10/hr and I learned that Steve Jobs was getting $4800 per hour, I might question some of the American corporate decisions myself.

Some don't suck, and in fairness I should point them out... but the most "underpaid" of these guys still earns 7 figures.

Hal wrote: Kudos to Curtis!

Y'all are makin' me blush. Shucks.

Just don't ask me to actually run the country. Blood pressure. Plus, no time to drink beer and post on forums.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

curtis73 wrote: Jobs and the economy feel the same to me. I feel like we're so stuck in our training. So you spent five years as a *textile manufacturing equipment repair technician.* That doesn't mean you have to find THAT job again. Find yourself out of work? Put an ad on Craigslist that you own a paintbrush and a roller. "You buy the paint, I'll put it on your wall." Put in an application at Starbucks. I spent 7 years managing auto repair shops and was in charge of 13 of them (7 of which I was able to get off the ground and oversee their genesis). I have an interview on Monday at a local chain of new car dealerships. If they offer me an executive management position, great. If they offer me the position of toilet scrubber and I need the money, I'll take it.

Dude, knock it off! You're letting the secret out. You weren't supposed to tell. My mom used to tell us "I don't worry about my kids being successful because no one else is trying". Lot of truth in that. Good luck on your interview!

Thanks! Your mom sounds like a smart gal.

Ya know when I actually learned my bootstraps? In Los Angeles while I was acting as background in film and TV. I watched a zillion nobodies clamoring for fame. They were like 18-year-old high school graduates who thought they deserved to be the next Donald Trump if they could just get their break. Most of them failed. Of course, a few did make it I'm sure, but I paid the bills with the slow and steady work. One day I might work with major stars, another day I might be doing a spec shoot for $40. On days that I didn't have any work I responded to CL ads for people who needed a timing belt change or an oil change. You'd be surprised what Beverly Hills folks will pay to have you come to their house to change the oil on their Bentley.... or rather; you'd be surprised how much I charged

I find it interesting that no one believes the good news in the news but parade the bad news around like it's the gospel.

The balance has shifted and there's more good than bad plus the bad that's out there isn't as bad as it used to be.

carguy123 wrote: I find it interesting that no one believes the good news in the news but parade the bad news around like it's the gospel. The balance has shifted and there's more good than bad plus the bad that's out there isn't as bad as it used to be.

Well, here's the thing. Stock market is back. Unemployment is getting better. More jobs being created even though the Tea Folk decided it was the perfect time to eliminate a ton of government jobs. Too bad they didn't want to do that when they had the White House and both houses of Congress. Obama will run on "Things are getting better. America can-do." The bleak thing will work well in the Republican primary, but Rmoney will have to run on "Things are bad. America can't."

I've yet to see the pessimist win.

Things are looking better.. they are not better yet, but better than they were a few short years ago.

I still think the republicans are going to throw this race. Nobody has a plan for getting us out of this (and they can't, it is a world wide problem) so nobody wants to take responsiblity for the fall

In reply to mad_machine:

very interesting

curtis73 wrote: ...If I worked as an "average" person at Apple making $10/hr and I learned that Steve Jobs was getting $4800 per hour, I might question some of the American corporate decisions myself...

Just wanted to point out that this is a bad example. Steve Jobs started that company and it is WILDLY successful and he had LOT to do with that. I think he deserves all he got... besides... he's dead... he isn't being payed anything now.

A company that hires some gumba for 50 million a year and doesn't seem to care what his performance is like (hey, all his "buds" are on the board of directors making 200 grand for maybe doing not so much... not much of a surprise there), now that is a bit more relevant.

aircooled wrote:

curtis73 wrote: ...If I worked as an "average" person at Apple making $10/hr and I learned that Steve Jobs was getting $4800 per hour, I might question some of the American corporate decisions myself...

Just wanted to point out that this is a bad example. Steve Jobs started that company and it is WILDLY successful and he had LOT to do with that.

Agreed. The idea of highly paying an executive isn't a bad thing by itself. These people are in charge of making decisions that can make or break a company. If they make the right decisions, I have no problem with them being rewarded well for it.

The big outcry is when they make the wrong decisions and thousands of people lose their salaries, but the their contract is written so they still get top dollar and some crazy-huge bonus.

aircooled wrote:

curtis73 wrote: ...If I worked as an "average" person at Apple making $10/hr and I learned that Steve Jobs was getting $4800 per hour, I might question some of the American corporate decisions myself...

Just wanted to point out that this is a bad example. Steve Jobs started that company and it is WILDLY successful and he had LOT to do with that. I think he deserves all he got... besides... he's dead... he isn't being payed anything now.

I agree.. Steve Jobs and Warren Buffet were/are both worth every penny they were paid. They made their companies into what they are today... HIGHLY profitable.

I think the camel stumbled because we put another 500 lb on it. The camel is now starting to walk again but slowly. Some folks think the camel can handle the new 500 lb load and won't have any problems with the 500 lb load that's coming in 2014. Others think the camel was overloaded before and if we put another 500 lb on it the camel's back is going to break.

Put me in the latter camp.

Ian F wrote: Agreed. The idea of highly paying an executive isn't a bad thing by itself. These people are in charge of making decisions that can make or break a company. If they make the right decisions, I have no problem with them being rewarded well for it. The big outcry is when they make the wrong decisions and thousands of people lose their salaries, but the their contract is written so they still get top dollar and some crazy-huge bonus.

Agreed. Cutting jobs to save money, then giving yourself a bonus, seems............wrong?

Consistently losing money, then giving yourself a bonus, seems...........wrong?

The problem is capitalism has no concept of right or wrong. Only the bottom line.

aircooled wrote:

curtis73 wrote: ...If I worked as an "average" person at Apple making $10/hr and I learned that Steve Jobs was getting $4800 per hour, I might question some of the American corporate decisions myself...

Just wanted to point out that this is a bad example. Steve Jobs started that company and it is WILDLY successful and he had LOT to do with that.

Agreed, but 8-9 figures a year? There was a time in the early 2000s when Steve Jobs was earning 7.x million a year and they were financially in trouble. Seriously? If I started a company and it was truly "my baby," if the board came to me and said we need 7 million to stay afloat this year, I would say "cut my damn salary for three years. I can sell one of my 25 homes if I need cash." For cripes sake, I have been a lowly manager and put in my own $50 to help me make the business I worked for succeed. How can you say that Steve Jobs "deserved" every penny. I know a dozen small business upstarts who haven't put a single dime in their pocket just to make the business survive.

I think he deserves all he got... besides... he's dead... he isn't being payed anything now.

He's being paid almost as much as he was before. He owned the company. Do you think he would not set himself up with a retirement LS, or at least massive profits for his heirs?

A company that hires some gumba for 50 million a year and doesn't seem to care what his performance is like (hey, all his "buds" are on the board of directors making 200 grand for maybe doing not so much... not much of a surprise there), now that is a bit more relevant.

Again, agreed. I just take a different view, and this is honest. If I started a highly profitable company, I would take what I thought I deserved... not by setting myself up with a multi-million dollar salary, but I would have the business pay for my expenses. I don't need 30 houses, I need one. I don't need 20 cars, I need one. People within capitalism have every right to live the dream, they just SHOULD live globally.

... in fact the current political struggle is based on that very dissent.

But, of course capitalism is designed to favor the top 1%

z31maniac wrote:

Ian F wrote: Agreed. The idea of highly paying an executive isn't a bad thing by itself. These people are in charge of making decisions that can make or break a company. If they make the right decisions, I have no problem with them being rewarded well for it. The big outcry is when they make the wrong decisions and thousands of people lose their salaries, but the their contract is written so they still get top dollar and some crazy-huge bonus.

Agreed. Cutting jobs to save money, then giving yourself a bonus, seems............wrong? Consistently losing money, then giving yourself a bonus, seems...........wrong?

We have that problem here in Atlantic City... at the one casino I work at.. director's bonuses are tied to how much money they can save the company... in other words, the more people you can lay off.. the bigger your bonus

curtis73 wrote: Agreed, but 8-9 figures a year? There was a time in the early 2000s when Steve Jobs was earning 7.x million a year and they were financially in trouble. Seriously? If I started a company and it was truly "my baby," if the board came to me and said we need 7 million to stay afloat this year, I would say "cut my damn salary for *three* years....

Interesting that you say that:

One of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time, the founder of one of the most innovative and successful companies in the world – Apple, had been working for only 1 dollar annual salary for the last 15 years!

http://bigbusinessideas.org/steve-jobs-salary-1-dollar-per-year/

Of course that can be a big of a tax dodge (being paid in stock options), but it does totally tie his compensation to the value of the company, and guess what, it has SKYROCKETED!

curtis73 wrote: How can you say that Steve Jobs "deserved" every penny. I know a dozen small business upstarts who haven't put a single dime in their pocket just to make the business survive.

Again, MANY better examples then Jobs, I think you are really barking up the wrong tree here. He Started the company, is considered one of the greatest innovators in business history, and is clearly VERY responsible for how ridiculously successful the company has been. Apples market capital is around 500 BILLION!!! My god man, he is heavily responsible for most of that and his compensation is a tiny faction of that!

Let me state though, I don't think he is perfect, I probably would not want to work for the guy. He is know for being quite an aggressive a-hole, but he clearly knew what he was doing, and it worked for him business wise.

BoxheadTim wrote: Everything I read suggest that the whole thing is very regional - there are areas where the economy is doing pretty well (around DC, for example)

mad_machine wrote: Things are looking better.. they are not better yet, but better than they were a few short years ago. I still think the republicans are going to throw this race. Nobody has a plan for getting us out of this (and they can't, it is a world wide problem) so nobody wants to take responsiblity for the fall

This.

93EXCivic wrote:

mad_machine wrote: Things are looking better.. they are not better yet, but better than they were a few short years ago. I still think the republicans are going to throw this race. Nobody has a plan for getting us out of this (and they can't, it is a world wide problem) so nobody wants to take responsiblity for the fall

This.

They already have. They held a primary and nobody who could win showed up.

My little corner of the economy (european car repair) has picked up greatly. The last few years most of our customers couldn't afford the gas in these things, let alone maintenance and repairs. But slowly and surely the money is coming in. The long list of recommended repairs is being chiseled down and I am seeing a lot more customers spend $2000+ when they come in.

I also believe the lamestream liberal media kool-aid dispensers