ECU-based odometers and flat-towing (Toyota)

A dealer is offering a '14 Scion xD with 14,xxx miles. Photos clearly show flat-towing hardware on the front end.

Just out of curiosity, would the ECU-stored odometer rack up miles with the car turned off? I have no idea how that works.

I imagine it wouldn't...ECUs are usually not powered when the car is in the OFF position. Also, a "regular" odometer woudn't count flat-towed miles, and I'd think legally an electronic odometer would have to be consistent with that.

In fact most modern odometers are electronically-driven even if they use the mechanical number wheels on the dash - they move based on the VSS signal.

Mechanical odometers will absolutely count miles when flat towing. The only exception that I know of is 4×4s where the transfer case can go into neutral preventing the trans tailshaft from spinning.

A "regular" odometer is driven off the output shaft of the transmission. If the wheels are turning, the driveshaft is turning and the odometer is racking up miles. To make it not count miles you need a disconnect.

OP, flat towing wouldn't inherently spook me. Most likely, it was towed locally to be provided to customers as a rental or loaner. Customer driving would concern me more than the flat towing. Customers are not inherently nice to rental or loaner cars.

You could ask the dealership if a driveline disconnect was used or installed, and check the web for info on problems with flat towing the car.

HappyAndy wrote: Mechanical odometers will absolutely count miles when flat towing. The only exception that I know of is 4×4s where the transfer case can go into neutral preventing the trans tailshaft from spinning.

Good point, but those aren't common these days. By "regular" I was thinking VSS-driven number wheels.

In any case, disconnect the battery and the odometer won't move.

Driveline disconnects can introduce vibration, so be aware of that while checking the car out. If you feel excess vibration that increases with speed, it's a feature.

I doubt they would disconnect the half shafts to tow.. not only would that leave two gaping holes in the transaxle for dirt to get in, but it would ruin the outer bearings

EvanR wrote: A dealer is offering a '14 Scion xD with 14,xxx miles. Photos clearly show flat-towing hardware on the front end. Just out of curiosity, would the ECU-stored odometer rack up miles with the car turned off?

No.

This was a selling point at Saturn towards RVers. The transmission design could be flat-towed indefinitely and the electronic odometers would not rack up miles.

We'd install tow bars too, and I saw some show up to pick up their new Saturn with their RV. Hitch up and go straight from the dealership.

I have flat towed electric speedo Toyotas with the battery disconnected (or missing), such as a '92 RN Truck. The odometer did not move.

EvanR wrote: A dealer is offering a '14 Scion xD with 14,xxx miles. Photos clearly show flat-towing hardware on the front end. Just out of curiosity, would the ECU-stored odometer rack up miles with the car turned off? I have no idea how that works.

Nope, it will not as the car is not being operated.

You folks are smart. This car could have been dragged behind an RV for 40,000 miles in the last year for all I know, and so I won't even bother going to look at it.

Thank you.

Why would that be bad?

Knurled wrote: Why would that be bad?

I dunno... something about 40,000 unreported miles on the chassis, wheel bearings, suspension and who knows what all else make this a 65,000 mile car with 15,000 on the engine, transmission, and brakes.

On a car that will likely go to 200k before you have to change much of any of it.

Me thinks you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If it really bothers you, negotiate the price down a bit more due to it being a flat tow car and go enjoy the car.

I'd be highly unconcerned about any miles racked up on the kind of roads that an RV would traverse. The tires would wear but for everything else, who cares? Okay, suspension wear, but you'd get the same wear if it was on a trailer.

How many people block up their cars on the trailer so the suspension can't move? (I know the answer is non-zero - my employer's dad had pins and blocks and would set his dragster on the framerails. Ironically, the dragster has no suspension)

I don't think it's that big of a deal at all if it did get dragged behind an RV that much. My current '09 HHR is the exact same way. It was towed behind an RV as it has all the towing stuff up front. So it had a bit of extra wear on the suspension? Who cares? I thought of it this way. If they needed to tow a car behind their RV, it was probably a sizable RV. Who drives sizable RVs and tows a newer car behind them? People with money. Usually old people with money. Usually old people with money who take care of their RV...and the vehicle they're towing. Yes, there are exceptions to that rule, but you sure see it a lot. Go check the car out. If it's really clean and is a good bargain, go for it.

Here's the car:

Scion xD

You tell me.

a manual transmission that has been flat towed wouldn't scare me nearly as much as an automatic transmission that's been flat towed.

In reply to novaderrik:

$14k for a Scion XD would be a bit excessive......You'd be better to buy a new Kia Soul.

It's the way prices are around here. But Souls get crappy MPG and you can't get a new one with a stick and cruise anymore :(

WOW Really Paul? wrote: In reply to novaderrik: $14k for a Scion XD would be a bit excessive......You'd be better to buy a new Kia Soul.

i will never own either of those vehicles..