Education on: Decks

As in the backyard kind. Never built one before but am planning on it this spring/summer.

So far here's a couple basics I've got.

• Footings will be concrete 36-42" deep with belled bottoms and poured using Sonotube with cast-in-place anchor bolts for post anchors to set on top of the piers.

• Currently planning to use regular treated wood for everything (except maybe parts or all of the railing) and then stain it next year once it's good and dry. Our treated wood often seems very wet around here. Composite decking is not being considered and I don't think I can afford to go with redwood, cedar, or something more naturally rot and insect resistant.

• Deck will be between 24-30" above grade and on the west (back) side of the house, at the southwest corner.

? Overall design and layout is still a work in progress so I can't size my beams and joists yet but are there any rules of thumb for footing diameter (assuming a 4x4 post)?

What else should I consider, plan for, or do?

After years of building decks, I've come to the conclusion that using wood outside is a bad idea. Maybe some exotic woods work well, but at least in my geographic area, even the best treated lumber doesn't hole up dimensionally over time. And then there's the maintenance.
I'm tearing down my deck and replacing it with a stone patio.
If you insist on a deck, make sure you use good deck screws everywhere, not nails, and get your wood dry, not wet.

bravenrace wrote: After years of building decks, I've come to the conclusion that using wood outside is a bad idea. Maybe some exotic woods work well, but at least in my geographic area, even the best treated lumber doesn't hole up dimensionally over time. And then there's the maintenance. I'm tearing down my deck and replacing it with a stone patio. If you insist on a deck, make sure you use good deck screws everywhere, not nails, and get your wood dry, not wet.

I built one about five years ago, and I am still happy with it, but this is right. The wood twists, warps, cracks, splinters, ugh. It's terrible. The deck would have cost 3-4x if I had gone with plastic or Cedar (which I would prefer, next time) but I have no idea how to make it right with standard treated lumbar.

No such thing as "footing diameter"

It would be expressed as square footage of bearing area on the soil, with the particular type of soil defining the compaction/ bearing capacities of the soil.

Sonotubes are a great way to do piers, except that "bell" shape bottom is tricky. If you do a 12" dia sonotube, and need 4 sf of soil bearing, you are trying to dig a bell shape that is 2' square through a 12' hole. A little like assembling an engine through the exhaust pipe.

The post size is meaningless. It has to do with the spans, and the calculated load being supported.

The depth has to do with the frost line, to the bottom of the footing. Probably 36" in your area.

Having said all that, I did lot's of deck piers with 12" Sonotube and a bell shaped 2' x 2' base in a climate similar to yours. Never had a problem.

I recovered my deck several years ago and switched to a plastic product (Weatherbest) at that time. Yes, it's quite a bit more expensive than 5/4 wood decking, but I do absolutely nothing to it other than a power wash every once in a while. Every time friends and neighbours see it I get positive comments.

All I know is that Lowes will design your deck for free and then help you buy the materials. Walk in with some pictures and basic measurements and they'll do the rest.

http://www.lowes.com/cd_In-Store+Services+745829091?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051#FREE%20Computer%20Project%20Design

Composite seems the only way to go for me.

I've had it with wood maintenance. When you factor in the future work and replacement then composite is downright cheap!

No personal experience, but a friend built one off his house a few years ago. He was surprised to find out it required a permit. He had also originally planned to anchor the house-side to the house framing, which he learned was not legal in his area (attach - yes; anchor - no). Posts next to the house were required.

We have a composite...well, porch, basically...as the 2nd story landing/deck of our building/apartment. It's ~5'x10', but it's 14' up in the air.

We used standard pressure-treated for the posts and framing, and then composite for the decking and railings. We love it, but there are a couple things worth noting: The composite scratches and mauls pretty easily, like when shoveling snow. The deck boards aren't actually screwed down, there's cleats between each one, which hold them down in addition to holding them apart. Unfortunately, the boards directly in front of our door slip a bit, and every month or so I need to give them a gentle nudge back in place with my foot.

The composite railing actually kinda sucks. You still use wood for the posts, and then just slip a sleeve over it, which is OK. But the railings and rungs are particleboard inside, and ours warped within a year.

We paid about $500 in materials and $700 in labor about 1.5-years ago(because there was no berkeleying way I was going to build a deck 14-feet up in the air). That obviously included a couple really long 6"x6" and the 4"x4" for the deck frame.

My wife made me bust up the patio and build a deck 25 years ago. She is moving out at the end of May, and the second thing I do when I sober up is burn the deck and put down a patio.

Tom Suddard wrote: All I know is that Lowes will design your deck for free and then help you buy the materials. Walk in with some pictures and basic measurements and they'll do the rest.

I did not know that. Thank you for the tip Tom!

Streetwiseguy wrote: My wife made me bust up the patio and build a deck 25 years ago. She is moving out at the end of May, and the second thing I do when I sober up is burn the deck and put down a patio.

QFH

I've got a 10x16 ground level wood deck on our house, which is single story slab built. I long to rip out the awful, rotting pressure treated monstrosity and put down a nice patio, or even a concrete one. Alas, I only lack the funds and the time. And maybe the will.

None of which helps you when one end of your place would be 2' up. Making that work in concrete would be pricey.

ultraclyde wrote: ...Making that work in concrete would be pricey.

Steps aren't that much.

foxtrapper wrote:

Tom Suddard wrote: All I know is that Lowes will design your deck for free and then help you buy the materials. Walk in with some pictures and basic measurements and they'll do the rest.

I did not know that. Thank you for the tip Tom!

I thought that he would be an expert on patios, being that his mom is constantly building them. How he learned anything about decks is beyond me. Must be those late nights partying and building things out of wood.

after building and having treated wood decks for years, then building a composite deck last year..... I will NEVER build a treated wood deck again. Every year we were replacing 4-5 boards. Wood bees were a constant issue. warpage, cracking, and pulling the "good" deck screws out. Never ever again.

It cost us ~2x what the treated deck would have for the composite. I would have gladly paid 3 times because it's much nicer.

bravenrace wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: My wife made me bust up the patio and build a deck 25 years ago. She is moving out at the end of May, and the second thing I do when I sober up is burn the deck and put down a patio.

QFH

Menopause is a biatch. And the women have a hard time of it too.

Watch out for the arsenic vapors from burning the 25 year old treated wood.

Treated wood ain't what it used to be, which may be good or bad depending on your perspective.

The CCA treated wood that was widely used until the early 2000s resisted decay pretty well. The new stuff doesn't seem to be as effective.

<img src="" /> This is the deck at my cabin. It is made of 2"X10"X10' (actual dimension) rough cut white cedar. The post are 4"x4" treated lumber set 48"-60" deep on concrete footings. I bought the cedar from a local Amish sawmill. It was fresh out of the swamp when they cut it. I stored it from october 2007 through may 2008 in an airplane hangar to dry it. I bought 67 2X10s for just under $800. It is very sturdy. The only problem that I have had is with porcupines chewing it. I have eliminated that problem with a .22 long rifle and a salt block next to the outhouse. The smaller cedar porch that it replaced was in fine shape after 45 years of use. This photo shows the pocupine damage.

pilotbraden wrote: <img src="" /> This is the deck at my cabin. It is made of 2"X10"X10' (actual dimension) rough cut white cedar. The post are 4"x4" treated lumber set 48"-60" deep on concrete footings. I bought the cedar from a local Amish sawmill. It was fresh out of the swamp when they cut it. I stored it from october 2007 through may 2008 in an airplane hangar to dry it. I bought 67 2X10s for just under $800. It is very sturdy. The only problem that I have had is with porcupines chewing it. I have eliminated that problem with a .22 long rifle and a salt block next to the outhouse. The smaller cedar porch that it replaced was in fine shape after 45 years of use. This photo shows the pocupine damage.

Dude, you win. How did you find a mill like that?

Here's what we put up last april/may:

16'x32', composite from Lowes. The support is made from 2x12 treated lumber and a E36 M3 load of 4x4's sunk 2' in concrete. It's sturdier than any of the plan built ones I've been on. The lattice is composite (aka plastic) and under teh stairs is still not "complete" as we want to do something different with that but it keeps the bigger critters out (skunks, possums and coons)

The down side to composite is that it requires closer cross braces. Instead of every 18"-2' it requires a support every foot. But the positive to that is you get a very solid feeling, sturdy deck.

In reply to tuna55:

I had to go to the Amish part of town, north of Mio MI. There are 6-7 sawmills in the area. I stopped at one, asking about cedar. They did not have any but sent me to see Marion at the Timbertown sawmill. He specializes in cedar.

Thanks for all the input so far.

My concerns with the composite decking are the additional framing support required and the fact that every composite deck I've been on felt like I was walking on asphalt - i.e. hot, hot, hot! The stuff seems to soak in the heat a lot more than wood, especially wood with a lighter color stain or paint.

I walk on any number of composite decks here in Texas and even in the 100 degree days I haven't found them to be hot. Well not any hotter than wood.

I'm about to install a ground level composite patio rather than use pavers because it's much cooler than the concrete pavers.