Elio Commuter

bastomatic wrote: My hunch is that the track up front will be too narrow for driving on Michigan winter roads, and Dr. Boost's concern for the rear wheel is valid. I also worry about the size scaring off buyers, since people I talk to think my Leaf is way too tiny.

Yeah, ain't that kind of funny? I have people say that my Leaf is too small, but in actuality it's not that small. I park next to my wife's Kia Forte hatch in the garage. The LEAF is about the same length, but is significantly taller.

I agree the size, winter driving and overall design may scare off some buyers. Conceptually, I look at the Elio as a cheap version of a Can Am Spyder with a roof, seatbelts and some measure of crash structure.

The more I think about this, the more I want one.

Being an Engineer, I love how basic this thing is. A steering wheel, shifter, 3 pedals, instrument cluster, and that's it (actually, the cluster, shifter, control stalks and steering wheel all seem to be from Ford parts bin). A simple 1-din Radio and hvac. I always tell people when we are discussing newer cars "if engineers made decisions you wouldn't see any of that E36 M3 on a car" referring to the complexity of newer cars, stuff that can go wrong, hard to service, etc.

I also like that it's plastic bodied.

My 2 major concerns are:

1) How much storage does it have? Can the rear seat fold flat? Can I add a cargo carrier to the roof for special trips? Bike rack? Most of my reason for driving a larger car (yes, a 2300lb Saturn = large in my world) is that I occasionally need to carry stuff, not necessarily 5 people.

2) How does a 3 wheeled car handle? I think it could be pretty fun, but my gut says the handling will be very limited. By definition the rear roll center is the surface of the asphalt, and it provides ZERO roll control. The front can obviously provide roll control, but also provides power so you can't use a big swaybar.... meaning to handle well stupid stiff front springs would be required, thus compromising the ride quality? I bet with some stiff springs and a ST*/STR tire setup it would be pretty fun, even if not fast, on an autox course.

ProDarwin wrote: 2) How does a 3 wheeled car handle? I think it could be pretty fun, but my gut says the handling will be very limited. By definition the rear roll center is the surface of the asphalt, and it provides ZERO roll control. The front can obviously provide roll control, but also provides power so you can't use a big swaybar.... meaning to handle well stupid stiff front springs would be required, thus compromising the ride quality? I bet with some stiff springs and a ST*/STR tire setup it would be pretty fun, even if not fast, on an autox course.

Probably handles better than some 3-wheelers I can think of...

I like it, if they can nail the safety aspect I think this could work for me. I commute 60 miles a day, so I'm very intently watching this and the electric car market. Once I can get an electric car with a 100+ mile range (to compensate for the cold weather we get in CT) that's a reasonable price, I'm thinking of going in that direction. But this is definitely an attractive option.

I said it in the old thread and I'll say it again. The $6800 price tag is in the mid-size motorcycle range. If Honda has to charge $7k for a CTX700N in order to make a profit, how can a company make a profitable car at that price?

Honda doesn't have to charge that much to make money on them, that's just how much they choose to charge. I believe motorcycle pricing is based heavily on what the market will bare. Nonetheless, I don't think it matters. I don't think this car will ever see production, and I bet anybody that invests in this scheme will lose everything they've invested.

could be cool as a CKD kit.. like an Ikea car

In reply to Zomby Woof:

I tend to agree... unless Elio is hoping for a healthy export business (which I suppose is possible), I just don't see this car/trike selling in large enough numbers to stay in business.

I would take a look at one if they make it to production.

A much less-cheap option, but they've been around for awhile...

http://peraves.wordpress.com/

I like the idea of a three wheeler. I would love to at least try one out if they do make it to production. I'd still rather have this though.

A bit of a price difference.

If we end up getting a house a town over or so that doubles or more my commute to where this would make sense gas-wise, I'd seriously consider getting one. Of course, the 'enough savings on gas) standard might be a tall order, considering the standard it would be up against would be my 2000 Saturn which gets mid-20s city/mid-30s highway.

Doing some quick spreadsheet math, and even weighting it toward the Elio, assuming driving 50 miles per day every day, that the Saturn gets 25mpg and the Elio 84mpg, and that gas is at $3.20/gallon it would take a bit over 4 years of driving it to recoup the cost of buying it vs. just driving the Saturn. In more practical terms it would likely be closer to 6 years since the driving wouldn't always be on the highway and many times a larger car would be necessary...

Ashyukun wrote: If we end up getting a house a town over or so that doubles or more my commute to where this would make sense gas-wise, I'd seriously consider getting one. Of course, the 'enough savings on gas) standard might be a tall order, considering the standard it would be up against would be my 2000 Saturn which gets mid-20s city/mid-30s highway. Doing some quick spreadsheet math, and even weighting it toward the Elio, assuming driving 50 miles per day every day, that the Saturn gets 25mpg and the Elio 84mpg, and that gas is at $3.20/gallon it would take a bit over 4 years of driving it to recoup the cost of buying it vs. just driving the Saturn. In more practical terms it would likely be closer to 6 years since the driving wouldn't always be on the highway and many times a larger car would be necessary...

The elio gets 84 Highway, 49 city. You're comparing the Saturn's city mileage to the Elio's highway mileage.

So your rough 4 year costs are @ $3.50/gallon

Saturn @ approx 30mpg Gas - $5600 Depreciation - Approx $1000 (?) Total - $6600

Elio @ approx 66.5mpg Gas - $2526 Depreciation - Approx $3000 (?) Total - $5526

Of course, you can add in time-value of money, taxes, insurance, etc. and the Elio numbers will get higher.

But again, that's going back to the argument about driving the Elio vs. an old Metro. A 2000 Saturn is 13 years old. Yes, if you're trying to do the math to where the new car will "pay for itself" than it's almost always going to lose. And old fuel efficient beater is always cheaper. The question is do you want a new car and all that comes with it? If yes, then the savings of the Elio compared to another new car become significant.

That's what convinced me to get my LEAF. My old Saab was slightly cheaper to operate overall if you factor in all the numbers. But I wanted a new car, I was done driving beaters. So when comparing a LEAF to other new cars, it was a screaming bargain.

Agreed. I think the fact that the Elio is a new car and it can compete with a 13 year old econobox on a cost-to-own basis is very impressive.

....And I think that's the exact target market the designer was talking about.

Whether or not most people would be willing to drive one is a different question entirely. Right now I think not, but I bet that number's higher than it's ever been.

Oh, I know I was using the highest MPG for the Elio and the lowest for the Saturn since I was pretty certain the 'old beater' (which from anywhere but here I'd likely take mild offense at :P) Saturn would end up on top with how I was doing it. I wouldn't think it would make sense to replace a solid, working car with one of these- but I'd at least give it consideration if I suddenly found myself needing to replace my normal commuting car, though I'd also be giving serious consideration to the electrics too since most of them would be largely drop-in replacements as far as size/cargo/passengers go.

There's also the maintenance/repair factor. The new car has a warranty so there would be no repair costs for years, and maintenance costs would be low. Take a 13+ year old car and there will be repair/maintenance costs to consider. A head gasket on the Saturn would pay for thousands of trouble-free miles in the Elio. Here in MI we have to consider that just about any 13+ year old car is rusting and can't have that many more miles left before it starts 'adding lightness' in the form of chunks of the structure falling off.
If they produce it I'm buying it. My wife and I have already discussed it at length. My only concern is the rear wheel in the snow thing. Now to be honest, I don't expect this to tome to market only because few start-ups actually produce cars for sale for more than a few months.