employee compensation question

I cant find the answer in my employee standards handbook so I thought I would toss it out here for comment. I want to start a once weekly pre work breakfast meeting with my crew. We would go over the week to come and get everyone on the same page with respect to what has to be done and who will do it. I will pay for whatever hungryman special all you can eat triple grill and coffee they order, but I would rather not also pay them for having the meeting. I would consider the free breakfast payment in lieu. Is that reasonable? I already pay them for their lunch break, and among other things the extra half hour would end up as overtime at the end of the day so it would be an expensive meeting for me.

If it is required, that makes it a meeting and they need to be paid. Is what you're proposing reasonable? I'd say so. Is it legal/compliant? Doubt it. (This is all in Illinois; things might be different in Canadia)

Sounds like you should get coffee and donuts or bagels once a week for $50 and hold it in the conference room.

FWIW, my manager does this off and on, about once monthly. We're all salary, but we're "working" so the company is paying for it on one of our (team of 3-4) corporate cards. It is scheduled to start about 15-30 minutes prior to our "normal" start time, and we get back to the office about 30-45 minutes after our normal start time.

If you make it a mandatory meeting (or even hint that it is), I'm assuming you'll have to pay for their time. If it is absolutely voluntary, you shouldn't have to. It's a very grey area.

But, you'd need to stress to them that this is off the clock and, again, voluntary. But still a grey area. *see below

If it's important to success though, 30 minutes burned at the beginning of the week would probably make it worth paying them and dropping that from your other work. Basically, does that 30 minutes make your other 39.5 work hours for that week worth the effort?

*You can state all day long that it's voluntary, but if everyone but one person participates, they can easily say that they felt pressure to attend. I know if my boss stressed something was voluntary, I'd still feel compelled to attend. But I'm salary, so "hours" are a joke.

-Rob -Rob

Is this something they would do on their own in their normal life? If not, then it is on the clock. That's how I bill for my consulting work. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say any sort of meetings to discuss company business are on the clock.

I like your sentiment though. Maybe you can still do the meeting and just pick up coffee and donuts instead?

Yup. Requiring an hourly employee to do something means you have to pay for their time. Period.

Salary vs Hourly is important.

My thought? Get a breakfast catered or take out from a local establishment.

I think I am going to split the difference. I have to make it compulsory or some may choose not to attend. So it has to be part of the work day. We will meet at Timmy's on the clock for coffee instead. No breakfast. Thanks for the input.

mtn wrote: Sounds like you should get coffee and donuts or bagels once a week for $50 and hold it in the conference room.

Yep. That tends to work very well.

Yeah, even though I'm salaried, my previous employer would have staff meetings about every other week at lunch. The crappy deli tray sandwiches were not enough compensation for taking my personal lunch hour away.

I think putting them on the clock but not treating them to a full breakfast is probably a good idea.

For me, if my boss wants to go to breakfast and shoot the breeze, it's not on the clock. If we are discussing a work topic, on the clock. Basically, I figure if the boss can write it off on his taxes, it's a work meeting and I expect to be paid. Plus I don't really eat breakfast food at restaurants, except maybe a couple eggs, so the free food wouldn't be an incentive for me.

On the other hand, spending time with my boss makes my skin crawl, so I'm not about to do it for free! Perhaps your employees fee different toward you. I hope... Your a grmer so I'm sure you are better;)

joey48442 wrote: For me, if my boss wants to go to breakfast and shoot the breeze, it's not on the clock. If we are discussing a work topic, on the clock. Basically, I figure if the boss can write it off on his taxes, it's a work meeting and I expect to be paid. Plus I don't really eat breakfast food at restaurants, except maybe a couple eggs, so the free food wouldn't be an incentive for me. On the other hand, spending time with my boss makes my skin crawl, so I'm not about to do it for free! Perhaps your employees fee different toward you. I hope... Your a grmer so I'm sure you are better;)

Gosh, I sure hope that is not the case! My crew is important to me and I let them know it.

bearmtnmartin wrote: I already pay them for their lunch break, and among other things the extra half hour would end up as overtime at the end of the day so it would be an expensive meeting for me.

What everyone else said. BUT, I know of no state that requires paid lunch breaks. Pay them for the breakfast meeting as that would be the right thing to do. STOP paying them for lunch. That too is the right thing to do.

My department has a meeting every Monday morning to go over the work schedule for the coming week, and rolls or donuts are typically provided. It's during the regular work time, and doesn't require anyone to drive to a coffee shop for the meeting.

My guys don't have an office. They come to the yard, load the trucks and leave for the day. That is why I considered the restaurant idea. I pay through their lunch break because it is a perk that they like and I would not take that away to have a company meeting. That would be a step backward I think.

bearmtnmartin wrote:

joey48442 wrote: For me, if my boss wants to go to breakfast and shoot the breeze, it's not on the clock. If we are discussing a work topic, on the clock. Basically, I figure if the boss can write it off on his taxes, it's a work meeting and I expect to be paid. Plus I don't really eat breakfast food at restaurants, except maybe a couple eggs, so the free food wouldn't be an incentive for me. On the other hand, spending time with my boss makes my skin crawl, so I'm not about to do it for free! Perhaps your employees fee different toward you. I hope... Your a grmer so I'm sure you are better;)

Gosh, I sure hope that is not the case! My crew is important to me and I let them know it.

I didn't mean to imply that you were that way. I was just pointing out that I was probably a bit jaded in my opinion!

How far away is the restaurant? I have at least one who would demand reimbursement for mileage

They drive company trucks.

Cater it in the shop, on the clock.

If I ain't getting paid for talking about work stuff, I ain't gonna be there.. period..

Scott_H wrote: BUT, I know of no state that requires paid lunch breaks.

When it's required that you to attend, it's generally called a working lunch, or simply work. I have these regularly at this job, they are paid.

TRoglodyte wrote: Cater it in the shop, on the clock.

Sounds like the best idea to me if they don't absolutely have to be working for that half hour. Catering is cheaper than overtime and there's no additional transportation cost.

Employee compensation is part what I do for a living. Rules about what must be counted as work time vary quite a bit depending on locality and the type of work. In the US, the regulations vary state to state, city to city and industry to industry. I don't know Canadian or BC laws on this topic. A quick consult with a someone familiar with the applicable regulations may be worthwhile to make sure you are working within the letter and spirit of the rules.

Aside from the legal aspects, a good rule of thumb is plan on paying your crew for it, if the meeting is mandatory. As you can see from the responses here, that is inline with what a majority of North Americans would consider fair.

I would pay them for the meeting. Can you cut out an hour early on Friday to avoid it putting you in an OT situation?

I think it's a great idea, and you'll probably get far more benefit from the meeting than it would cost you. If you don't pay people for their time (even though you're getting breakfast), I think it could backfire.

Good way to separate the wheat from the chaff. If it is voluntary, and it becomes obvious that the "no shows" start to disappear when times are tight or get stuck in a E36 M3 shift rut after a year or so, people will fall in line.