Employer ethics

This is a bit of an open-ended topic, but I'd like to get a discussion going about the ethics of being an employer. I'm going to be in that position for the first time in my life probably inside a year, and I realize that as much as I know about business (which ain't much), I've never really considered the ethical side of the equation.

So, let's start with the broad question: does an employer have ethical obligations to his/her employees? It seems widely accepted there are some basic obligations like insurance and pension. (Although I find it a bit ridiculous that health care is tied to employment, that's the way it works here and it's probably not changing in my lifetime. I intend to offer it to my employees.) Does it go beyond that? What about more nebulous considerations like general stability? For instance, having full time work and knowing (within reason) that you'll have full time work for the forseeable future certainly lifts the mental burden of uncertainty that can come from living paycheck to paycheck. Is an employer obligated to provide steady full time work to fewer employees when that situation is possible, rather than part time work to more people, if the part time work is possibly temporary?

I'm thinking more broadly than basic stuff, the kinds of things that are written into employment law. Obviously everyone should be able to work in a safe, environment free of discrimination and all that jazz. Hopefully that's a given (although it's obviously not, since we need laws and enforcement for it...).

Again, I've only begun thinking about this, so I'm not even entirely sure of the conversation I'd like to have. But I know we have a lot of varied experience and thoughtful people among this community, and I'd like to get input from as many sources as possible.

As an employer, what do you feel are your ethical obligations (or at least considerations) to your employees? From the other side, employees, what considerations or compensations do you feel you're reasonably due?

An employee comes to work for you, and you pay him/her what their work is worth on the open market while complying with all federal and local laws and standards.

That is the end of end of the ethical obligation.

Now, if you want to be a good employer, you can offer more. You have to do what is right for your business and your situation. I think the best thing you can do is be flexible and honest with your employees, and hold them to the same standard.

I think as long as you're honest and up front about everything, you could go either way. You might start by hiring part-time positions that can turn into full-time if you're not absolutely positive you can sustain stable full-time employment. You're not going to piss anyone off if you hire them for a part-time job, then offer them a full-time position later. You will if you do it vise-versa.

Sounds like you're worried about offering part time and temporary work. Just be up front. We have discussed a family member of mine in the restaurant business. He actually has an email list of "on call" employees for special events. They don't have a set obligation of hours. My second job is on call and around 30 hours a month. My full time job covers the benefits, and I don't expect the others to do E36 M3 other than pay what they said they would.

An honest, ethical employer who leads from the front will enjoy a long-term, productive relationship with his/her employees.

The behavior and values that you model to your customers and to the people who work for you will ultimately drive the culture and brand of your business. While not many think about it, an organization's culture is a foundational force (sort of like alcohol - cause of and solution to, life's problems). There have been a few research studies that are pretty clear that companies that actively manage their culture and pursue employee satisfaction as a performance indicator do significantly better financially than their competitors who do not.

I suspect this is because there is a deeper consideration for the implications. Meaning, how satisfied your employees are connects to how well your product is made, or may affect your customers' experience with your business (great bread, but is the delivery guy an asshat you never want to see again)?

The question back at you is what kind of business/boss do you want to be (or are hardwired to be)? Maybe write it out - what's your vision long term - what are the company/personal values that are important to you. Now start backing into the ramifications. If you're going for a premium, high quality product, what kind of talent do you need to deliver on that? What standards will you hold them to and what should they expect in return? The flip side - high volume, lower quality point, lower price point, might take on a very different look in your staff.

This is at best tip of the iceberg thoughts.

Depending on the type of work you do, would overtime for full time employees be an option?

The company I work for was hit pretty hard with the recession a few years ago. Many people were laid off, there were several forced furlough days for the employees that remained, field personnel were working 24-32 hour weeks for several months.

It was an eye opener and even though things have picked back up in recent years, management is now always very cautious and reluctant to bring on a new employee. They would rather offer overtime work for current employees, and the hourly guys love it (some more than others obviously) getting paid time and a half.

It keeps the work on schedule, and when things inevitably slow down in the winter months, you don't have to deal with laying people off or not having enough work to go around.

Something to think about.

I've been on both sides of the fence. I used to have my own company many years ago, and my Dad still has his own company. I only had 3 employees, he has around 30 or so.

My answers are going to be a bit vague but hopefully will help. You do have some ethical obligations I believe, and of course you want them to make a decent living in addition to wanting them to stay with you, assuming they are good employees. But you also need to ensure you are making a profit. This isn't always easy and it is a fine line to walk.

There were many months I made nothing and paid them, and my Dad's company went two years being paid out of his pocket to keep everyone there. They never missed a paycheck to an employee. That said, you have to make sure and not overstaff, or pay more than you can afford. What is correct compensation? What does your industry pay? Do you want to lead your industry on the pay scale? Can you even afford it? Like I said, it is a very fine line.

Healhcare is another topic entirely. It is expensive to provide, but these days, you have to decide if you can with the upcoming changes. Not being political here, but there are new options to consider. It is going to cost you something if you provide or pay the fines for not providing. It is far and away my Dad's company's single biggest expense. You have to plan for this and you need to find someone that can explain this to you. There are many changes on the horizon and it is not so simple anymore.

Some of the not so tangibles to consider is creating an atmosphere that fosters everyone working together. People have different philosophies on this, but I think THE biggest thing you can do as employer is to make the working enviornment a pleasant place. That includes you have a good attitude, which won't always be so easy.

Things like retirement accounts you can add in over time. You need to get off the ground first. So many people have a misunderstanding about how a business works, but I think is boils down to this; you work hard, treat your employees well, and treat your customers well. If you do these things, hopefully you will make it. It's far from easy though and even that guarantees you nothing.

I see it going like this:
honest and non-judgemental workplace ethics thread devolves quickly into talk about Unions, then turns into pubs vs dems, then about my dad can beat up your dad, margie threatens patios, then someone gets banhammered.

I like pie

...gay slur

Ethical workplace to me is no game playing enviroment, a relatively "safe" work place, and a wage that makes me want to be there every time I am supposed to be there. But sadly, you have to balance those three to get anything done.

Everything else is extra and negotiable.

I'm guessing the bread bakery will have a retail "outlet" and/or delivery service where you reside currently and you can't be awake 24/7/365 to do everything?

An employer can offer whatever they want. You make an offer (part-time, full-time, salary, hourly) and the employee can decide if it works for them. If they take the job they are agreeing to work for you per your extended offer.

UPS employs a lot of full-time salary and hourly workers - they also offer a group of people around the holiday's part-time work only. They also have trailer unloader's that are part-time, evening workers with no guarantee of ever becoming a full-time permanent employee.

You can do what you want (all within the employment laws in your state, of course) - you have a business to run and it needs to be profitable.

Just be upfront with them. I took my job as a part time employee and I later became full time.

The ultimate oxymoron is "corporate ethics." When it comes to making money, there are no ethics. Corporate legal departments exist for the purpose of advising management just how far the laws can be bent. While there may be exceptions, they are rare. You can call me cynical, but deep down, you know I'm right.

Ranger50 wrote: Ethical workplace to me is no game playing enviroment, a relatively "safe" work place, and a wage that makes me want to be there every time I am supposed to be there. But sadly, you have to balance those three to get anything done.

This. Treat everyone like you'd want to be treated, or as much as available business resources will allow.

Employees paying for insurance or having a retirement package isn't an ethical obligation so much as a what a lot of companies do and can be something that a lot of workers may be expecting.

I would approach this from a different tack. Your local community college will have business courses that can give you guidance on norms and standards. Check to see if you have a local SCORE organization ( service core of retired executives). Other than that, make sure you are properly capitalized and be 100% upfront in all your dealings with employees.

Congratulations!

There is a lot of good stuff in this thread.

I have always had a desire to treat employees very well (I offered health insurance in an industry that no one had it, and always paid more than the "going rate", time off, benefits, etc). That was never an issue for me.

It became a little harder (no, a lot) when I had to balance the real financial needs of the company. For example:

• Though I wanted to treat my employees well, it is a higher obligation to be able to sustain the business. If the business can't make any money, they will all loose their jobs no matter what benefits I offer. My desires to offer more were out of step with my industry, which made my costs higher. I lost a lot of bids, even though my personal take-home pay was less then many of my competitors. I earned a reputation for doing wonderful work, with a great, trustworthy crew, but being expensive. That reputation did not carry us when the going got tough.

• The market controls more than I'd like to admit. You can't offer your employees so much that you end up price gouging your customers. My prices need to reflect the market and the going rates.

• There are jobs that are entry level by design, and growing out of them is sometimes a great thing. I can't hold someone back by not letting them move on when it is time to go, nor can I hold the business back by offering them significantly more than the job is worth. If I can't step them up into a higher level of responsibility, I need to accept that they may need to move on.

• An employee's paycheck (and other benefits) is a firm commitment. I have never paid them late, or less than we agreed. Ever. I can't run my business off the backs off my employees. There have been plenty of times that I made payroll and was late with my mortgage payment.

• Be careful about over-committing. Once, during a slow period, I went deeply into debt to keep my crew working. They never missed a check, even though we had 6 months without work. I paid them to work on a house for myself (moving into a bigger house than I needed, and taking on much more debt than I had had). When the Christmas bonuses were skinny, they were angry because they assumed I had sucked all the money out of the company to build a big house for myself. It hurt.

• Value their input. Seek there understanding and help. It is more important that they find value and fulfillment in their work than what you pay or the hours they work.

• Be honest. REALLY honest with your employees, your customers, and yourself. If your needs are for a part-timer with no benefits, admit it.

• Reward passion. Your brand depends on it. If you have someone who is passionate about making bread, his recipes better be on the menu, and the customers better know his name. You can't reward passion with dollars (though you can kill passion with too few dollars).

• Care. They are your biggest asset, and the core of your brand.

I don't ask my employees to do any job I won't do. I don't hire anyone I wouldn't be friends with outside of work. I pay more than most employers in my area for the type of work we do. I don't have different sets of rules for each employee, and I don't tolerate people who won't show up, show up late, or only have a "low gear." They make the good employees resentful, and in my experience, no amount of trying to explain how tardiness affects others will do any good; After they're fired, they'll just find a job with a schmoe for a boss who doesn't care if they're 10 minutes late every day or always call in sick on a Friday/Monday.

I don't pay for insurance. I'd rather give my employee that money and let them do whatever the berkeley they want with it. I DO give BIG bonuses when times are good, and remind them that at some point, times will NOT be so good. Nothing worse than busting your berkeleying ass to get a big job done, and then getting the same pay as the "easy" week before.

Seems to have worked out pretty well for me, but one size definitely does not fit all, and YMMV.