Enable me or save me from myself (RV Content)

For the Rolex this year, I rented a small 23ft travel trailer and it was really nice having a bathroom, kitchen, and heat. So now it has me convinced that I want to add some type of camper to the family. Budget-wise I'm looking to cap out at around $6,000 to purchase and make roadworthy/habitable enough to take on a couple trips this year. The crew would be two adults and three kids (9, 8, and 7ish) and our trips could be a short as an overnight jaunt to Red River Gorge about 2-3 hours away or as long as a 10 days neverending journey to Oklahoma about fifteen light years to the west. There is also at least one 2-day Rallycross event on the calendar for this year for which I would like to upgrade my accommodations.

My first pass on this was that I absolutely did not want another engine, transmission, and rear-end to feed and insure and I was pretty adamant that I wanted to get a travel trailer. The more I look around, though, I’m leaning more towards something self-propelled for two reasons: 1 - the towing capacity on the van limits me to smaller units or hybrid pop-out/up units that don’t seem very well insulated; 2 - I can’t tow the rallycross car and a travel trailer, so I wouldn’t be able to take my own bathroom and shower with me. On the flip side, since there’s no drivetrain, you can certainly get a nicer and newer trailer for the money as opposed to a motorhome.

So far, I’ve been searching craigslist within a 500 mile radius of Northern Kentucky from $1,500 to $6,000 and there’s a fair amount out there. There are a number of Class C and a ton of Class A from the mid 80’s through the early 90’s. Most of the Class As are on GM P30 step van chassis with 454s and turbo 400 transmissions. I’ve got a little bit of experience with the 454 as a boat motor from the 70’s and I know that they’re pretty rock solid, easy to work on, and parts and service can be found anywhere in the US. I don’t know how hard or easy the motors and transmissions are to get to once the coach body is on, but most of those doghouses look pretty big and easier than a van body to work around. Pretty much all the gen sets are Onan which I also have a little experience with from marine installations and I know a guy that will work on them, does housecalls, and is pretty cheap.

I haven’t gotten up and gone to look at any yet so I don’t really know what to expect, but I’m seeing a mixed bag of conditions and manufacturers out there at all sorts of price points. I know that the biggest problem with these comes from water intrusion and that the roofs need to be maintained regularly with seam tape and coatings and such and that different roof materials need different coatings. The next big thing that I’m aware of is tires since they usually age out/get UV-damaged before they wear out, being mostly stored out of doors. Then there are other problems that seem less severe/expensive: appliances, especially the fridge; cracked windshields, generators not running, dash A/C units not working, torn awnings, delamination of the fiberglass on the body.

There is no misconception in my mind that for the money I’m willing to spend, I will be able to find a unit that requires absolutely nothing, but at the same time I don’t want a complete basket-case project either. Units that are already experiencing roof leaks or that have water damage seem like a bad gamble, and I don’t want to buy an empty chassis and have to do a complete remodel. That might be a fun project later on down the road, but right now I have enough project to keep me busy.

Here’s what I know I don’t know: What does a full set of tires cost for a P-30 chassis and where does one go to get a decent deal on those? I assume we’re talking about truck truck tires, not LTs. If I buy one that has really bad tires, the fly-and-drive would have to include a stop somewhere to have tires put on before I drive it 500 miles home. I see a lot of these motorhomes on the road still, even ones from the early 80’s. Are these just complete timebombs that are waiting to blow a hole in my wallet or are they more like the marine installations where they’ll just run and run? How bad is it really when an RV “needs roof work”? Is that just code for “GRMers can get this for cheap and fix it in a saturday afternoon with a bucket of whizbang but it scares the heck out of guys that need to call a plumber to unclog a toilet”?

Some of the ones that I’ve found that I would consider looking at:

http://thumb.craigslist.org/rvs/5437876767.html

http://chambana.craigslist.org/rvs/5447147667.html

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/rvs/5430584742.html

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/rvs/5395624323.html

So am I crazy? And is it good-crazy, or bad-crazy?

From what I saw looking at travel trailers before we bought ours last year, "needs roof work" is code for "water has already been inside and caused damage". Everything else on an RV is reasonably easy to fix, but water damage is the RV killer.

In general, I'd say the newer the better because the chassis and powertrain components only got better. I don't think I'd enjoy driving or feeding an early 80s carbureted big block in something that size.

You might also want to check the towing capacity if you plan on hauling your race car behind it. A lot of these things are already pretty much maxed out at their GVWR just having all the RV stuff on them, especially the "lighter duty" Class A's.

Sounds like you want a pop top with awning to add living space outside on your tow rig, and to sign up for a single day to week trial membership at gyms near events that you are going to (for hot showers).

Otherwise short bus or box based ambulance are options, but will tear through 6k before you start getting into the rv conversion. Thankfully wireless bits and flat screens have made doing rv conversions fairly easy compared to 10-15 years ago.

I have a pop up camper with a biodegradable roof. If it says "needs roof work" cross it off your list.

Ditto what Tom said on checking the towing capacity. I've never messed with a powered RV for all the reasons you mentioned initially, but I've spent a lot of time in campgrounds around them. I don't recall ever seeing a Class C pulling anything heavier than a golf cart or single ATV and even that's rare.

I have brought back to life a few RV's with roof damage (leaks), but I don't recommend it. RV construction is a kinda unique animal (build a house out of light weight pressed crap, but make sure it will withstand the windload of driving it down the road at 70mph). Potential for mold issues is large.

I would figure $200 per tire as a budget.

Those rigs you highlighted don't look too bad.

Note: RV's sit a lot. They may only get a couple of thousand miles per year. Engines don't generally like to sit.

If it hasn't leaked, its going to.

If you pull the trigger on one, let me know, I may be able to join you to pick it up.

Otherwise, the only thing I know about towing, is one of the guys who scooter races tows several scoots (like 7-8) with a class C Minnie Winnie with a Ford V10.

Edit: Oh yeah, and look In Florida on CL. Every time I've looked down there, it seems there are a ton of them for sale in the Space Coast area.

Dat overhang. Think you can scratch towing anything off the list for this one.

Yeah, your comments about checking towing capacity sent me off on a research project and a lot of the owner's manuals for the older ones come out and say "no towing". It seems like the Deer chassis with the Ford 460 have the highest GCVWR (20,000lbs) while the P30s with 454 go from 14,000 to 18,000 depending on the rear end. The biggest concern seems to be the frame extensions essentially ripping off, so dat overhang is right!

Thanks for the confirmation on roof and water problems. That kind of even scares me away from units that are listed with "new roof!" since I don't know how much I trust that any water damage from the leak was actually repaired.

I've been emailing the owner of that first unit (the '92 Gulfstream in Michigan) and it sounds like it has a few little problems but isn't too bad off. The others haven't responded to email and I haven't had time to make phone calls.

Why not a class b? Wouldn't they be able to tow ok?

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/rvs/5432181614.html

Bus conversion dt466. She should tow ok.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Class B?

Maybe. If it's a light car on a light trailer. Forget an enclosed trailer, although I did see a Sprinter RV pulling a enclosed trailer with a small car (Formula Ford, I think) at Watkins Glen a few years ago. It had to be at the 5K lb max, or close to it.

Go to a vintage race and wander the paddock. You'll see rigs of just about every description.

A friend tows a RX7 hill climb car on an open trailer with a small Class C, but it's a smaller version so I don't know how well it would sleep 5.

If it was just for me or me and a companion, I'd look seriously at a B or even a slide-in with a pickemup truck, but I don't see jamming 5 for sure and up to 7 into one of those.

I admit that I totally skipped past that bus in my searching, but the interior is actually quite nice. I don't know if I can sell the wife on a schoolie though. I've looked briefly at a couple busses ala Mongo, and some E450 busses but converting one of those myself might be a little too ambitious.

Waiting for a Suddard to chime in. I love their RV story.

I just had a dumb idea. Sell the van, and replace it with a 3/4 ton van or pickup. Buy a 20' or 24' enclosed car trailer. Put up a dividing wall and kit out the front with a cooking and bath area. Build folding beds and tables into the back. Boom, a travel trailer when you want to bring along the family, and a car trailer when you want to go racing

eastsidemav wrote: I just had a dumb idea. Sell the van, and replace it with a 3/4 ton van or pickup. Buy a 20' or 24' enclosed car trailer. Put up a dividing wall and kit out the front with a cooking and bath area. Build folding beds and tables into the back. Boom, a travel trailer when you want to bring along the family, and a car trailer when you want to go racing

That's actually a very smart idea. So smart the RV industry has been doing it for years: http://www.jayco.com/products/toy-haulers/

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

I thought most toy haulers were too light duty for car hauling, unless you want to spend huge amount of money? So, I guess my dumb idea is a grassroots toy hauler

I have no practical experience with "Toy Hauler" RVs, but in theory, they scare the crap out of me for hauling a car. Why? Since the living quarters weigh virtually nothing and the car weighs a lot, you wind up with a whole lot of total trailer weight behind the axles. That makes for a bad tow.

In reply to EvanR:

That is 100% dependent on the specific setup. Depends on where the axles are, what you are loading, how you load it, etc. Sometimes it can be as simple as moving the car 6" forward, or placement of a tool box.

I ROUTINELY see people loading the tongue too heavy. Most tow vehicles still have a pretty low tongue weight capacity.

I am building a car hauler with living quarters right now.

eastsidemav wrote: In reply to Tom_Spangler: I thought most toy haulers were too light duty for car hauling, unless you want to spend huge amount of money? So, I guess my dumb idea is a grassroots toy hauler

Good question. I've owned an enclosed car hauler and been inside a bunch of toy haulers. They don't seem that different to me, but there may be more engineering going than is visible.

The "all the weight behind the axles" thing seems like a legitimate concern, though.

I was also always under the impression that the toy haulers didn't have enough space/weight-rating for a car. That's not a bad idea, though. I'll have to look around at those options more. It would probably have to be a fifth-wheel to have adequate living quarters plus a garage.

I think if you want a full living quarters plus a garage at the same time, you are right, it'd probably need to be a fifth wheel setup. That's why I suggested rolling your own. Though, I can see where you might have some issues with the rest of the family accepting that idea

Run far away from '80's pace arrow. Of the 4 the Gulfstream is on the face of it the best bet. On all of these, the 454's eat their exhaust manifolds. If by now they haven't been replaced with stainless headers, they will be swiss cheese. I had a p30 chassis for 19 years and well they aren't much good. There also isn't much of an alternative from this era until you get to a diesel pusher. I would also stay away from class B in this price range. You'll find the odd minnie winnie and that's about it, 7 mpg empty and no storage and towing will be problematic. Tires for a P30 aren't anywhere NEAR as spendy as they are when you move up to 21.5' wheels, but a set of 6 is still gonna run around 1500. I'd start with tire rack or discount tire.

Is the pace arrow itself problematic, or is it the P30?

I ask because there are some pace arrows on the Deere chassis with a Ford 460 and if course plenty of other manufacturers on the p30 chassis. Which is more problematic?

You've already heard it here and figured it out Im sure but I'd rather have to rebuild the engine through the tailpipe than deal with any RV with water damage. Run far from anything with water issues.