Examples of the industry listening to “us”

crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:

Yeah this is what I'm talking about.  I'm looking for examples of the industry listening to GRM forum members NOT car enthusiasts in general. I 10000% realize the relationship between enthusiasts and the car industry in generalalities and that thread would be a mess.

 

I'm curious about a GRM solving a problem or coming up with a great idea and the industry paying attention. I think it's interesting to see what kind of impact some of our threads might have made in the bigger scope.  A product revised/created because of good ideas on here for example. 

If you're specifically talking about the level of the Big 3 in Detroit or similar then I really doubt it, but I'm sure that there are smaller companies that have taken feedback and ran with it.

Tom Suddard said:

I can't name names, but a certain German automaker made it known to us that they were keenly aware of a GRM thread detailing the rebuilding of a glorified minivan....

That is really interesting that the van got that much attention.  Seth did kind of break the internet for a bit.

MrSmokey said:

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:

Tom Suddard said:

I can't name names, but a certain German automaker made it known to us that they were keenly aware of a GRM thread detailing the rebuilding of a glorified minivan....

My takeaway from that thread and the wider exposure it got was that the reputation of that automaker got dragged a bit, despite their position making sense from a cost perspective. 

 

Link? Seems I remember hearing something about it but just can't bring much of anything to mind

Since Tom didn't link it, I won't either. The thread was about a unicorn of destruction.

They never really talked to me, but I knew that they were watching on a USA corporate level. 

In retrospect I think they handled it the right way for the company. They could have just thrown a solution at me and made it go away, but the rebuilding generated more Mercedes press than they could have bought. Maybe not all of it was positive, but it did get people talking about AMGs. 

Other than that, I don't think GRM members buy enough new cars for manufacturers to care about or really even listen to. We're more likely to influence tire companies or smaller shops like Flyin' Miata. 

Duke said:

In reply to Gearheadotaku and Mr_Asa :

That's not only a GM problem, though they are consistently at the leading edge of creating it.

Since the early 2000s, wheels have been getting too big and windows have been getting too small.  To me it's almost reached absurdity, but that trend doesn't show much sign of slowing down.

 

I can’t find the source but at Chrysler this was an intentional post-9/11 design change because people wanted to feel more safe and isolated, exacerbating the *actual* safety trend toward a higher beltline. Not going to change any time soon, I expect.  

There was a thread where some GRMers were bemoaning the loss or change of a certain Subaru and some exec from Subaru joined to say we aren't their target audience. I remember agreeing with him.

Before I found this place, I hung around a lot on NASIOC (still kinda do). Back when the 2008 WRX came out, it was panned big time on the forum and in the press. Compared to the beloved 2002-2007 cars, it was soft, frumpy, and boring. A lot of people looking to buy new cars shopped elsewhere. At the time, the Evo was still around (going through its own changes), and the Mazdaspeed 3 had just come out, hot out of the gate. The GTI had all sorts of trim packages including the AWD R32, the Caliber SRT4 was a thing that existed, and even Chevy decided to improve the Cobalt SS with a turbo and upgraded suspension components tuned on the 'Ring. 

For 2009, Subaru realized their mistake and upped power from 227hp to 265, added wider, stickier rubber, revised the styling so it looked better, and added more options to make it more appealing. It was right there performance-wise on paper with the much more expensive STI. They sold a ton of them, and people that bought the 2008 were so peeved with the upgrades that they tried to file a class action lawsuit (which was laughable, but yeah...NASIOC). I ended up buying one myself, putting my money where my mouth was. While mine was sort of a turd in the end, Subaru ultimately did listen to the forum enthusiasts and made some pretty drastic changes in the course of one model year.  

I wanted a diesel 1/2 ton pickup forever.

By the time manufacturers started making them, diesel cost more than gas and I outgrew 1/2 ton pickups.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

They never really talked to me, but I knew that they were watching on a USA corporate level. 

In retrospect I think they handled it the right way for the company. They could have just thrown a solution at me and made it go away, but the rebuilding generated more Mercedes press than they could have bought. Maybe not all of it was positive, but it did get people talking about AMGs. 

Other than that, I don't think GRM members buy enough new cars for manufacturers to care about or really even listen to. We're more likely to influence tire companies or smaller shops like Flyin' Miata. 

There is a thread about brake ducts for Miatas here somewhere.  Keith dove head first into the project, he did expirements, research, prototyping (sent some out for testing to a racer I believe) and I think bought more equipment for production all while answering my dumbass questions.  That's not a major car manufacturer but is damn good example of a GRMer(s) with a need and a small company stepping up to meet it.  Bravo!

PS I still think forum members should get a discount, but I'll settle for advice and tech support

ShawnG said:

I wanted a diesel 1/2 ton pickup forever.

By the time manufacturers started making them, diesel cost more than gas and I outgrew 1/2 ton pickups.

 

I followed and begged for a Mahindra small diesel pickup in the US. Once it was clear that they couldn't meet the EPA requirements and gave up I bought an Ecodiesel Ram which even though its a got a reputation, I've gotten close to 30mpg hwy and have had no issues ever. (Diesel is cheaper than regular gas where I live) Seems like the early adopters of that truck really paved the way for the diesel Colorado's and other new half ton diesels.

thats more of an example of the market speaking than forums though.

In reply to Tony Sestito :

I think that was more a case of them listening to falling market place sales in comparisson to the competition rather than listening to enthusiasts.

In reply to Tony Sestito :

Same thing kind of happened to the Neon.  The first gen came out, and everybody said, "This thing is a lot of fun to drive, but it's kind of buzzy and harsh and loud."

So Chrysler fixed all that in the second generation and nobody liked them or bought them except rental fleets.  Everybody said they were too soft and dull and had lost that essential Neon-ness that they loved.  Even the enthusiast-driven SRT-4 never sold that well.

There's just no berking pleasing people.

Brett_Murphy (Forum Patrón) said:

Since Tom didn't link it, I won't either. The thread was about a unicorn of destruction.

I keep trying to read through that, but its so long.

Examples of Honda listening; but, not always executing:

Fans: We want a CR-X

Honda: Here's a CR-Z with a hybrid powertrain

Fans:  

break

Fans: The 2012 Civic Si is a turd compared to the outgoing 8th gen. 

Honda: Here are some updated bumpers and interior bits. We didn't change anything in the drivetrain that you complained about though. 

Fans: Yea its still the same car and this K24z7 has a weird head. 

break

Fans: We want a Civic Type R

Honda: Here you go! 

break

Fans: Honda can you please put a volume knob back in your cars?

Honda: Here's a 3 step press release about how we listen to our fans and how ergonomic our volume knobs are. 

break

Fans: Honda please bring the Ridgeline back

Honda: Here you go

Fans: No not like that

break

Fans: Honda please don't kill the Fit or the manual Accord

Honda: Ok we killed off the Fit, the manual Accord, and the Civic Coupe. Anything else? 

The CRZ having less hp than a 30 year old CRX with a b16 was such a swing and a miss by Honda.

Duke said:

In reply to Tony Sestito :

Same thing kind of happened to the Neon.  The first gen came out, and everybody said, "This thing is a lot of fun to drive, but it's kind of buzzy and harsh and loud."

So Chrysler fixed all that in the second generation and nobody liked them or bought them except rental fleets.  Everybody said they were too soft and dull and had lost that essential Neon-ness that they loved.  Even the enthusiast-driven SRT-4 never sold that well.

There's just no berking pleasing people.

 

My opinion on the Neon is that the four things wrong with the first gen gave them such a name that the vastly improved second gen didn't stand a chance, even though a 02 Neon was as good a car to drive as an 02 Accord.  Long term, not as good, but still...  Seats are better in the Neon.

Frameless windows, short pistons, cheap head gaskets and bad paint, in case anyone is wondering.

Tom Suddard said:

I can't name names, but a certain German automaker made it known to us that they were keenly aware of a GRM thread detailing the rebuilding of a glorified minivan....

When we were stickering the E55 Benz up at the challenge David took pictures and said "I need to send these to the guys at AMG"

I don't know if it was "check out this badass AMG livery done in a hotel parking lot" or "LOL you guys your $70k muscle sedan cost this yahoo $1500"

Duke said:

In reply to Tony Sestito :

Same thing kind of happened to the Neon.  The first gen came out, and everybody said, "This thing is a lot of fun to drive, but it's kind of buzzy and harsh and loud."

So Chrysler fixed all that in the second generation and nobody liked them or bought them except rental fleets.  Everybody said they were too soft and dull and had lost that essential Neon-ness that they loved.  Even the enthusiast-driven SRT-4 never sold that well.

There's just no berking pleasing people.

 

Auto journos can be blamed for inciting some of this stuff. They'll review a car and say "XYZ is BAD" then their followings go "Yea you know what it is bad!" Auto manufacturer fixes it and then auto journos say "While Company A fixed XYZ, the fixes take away from the character of the car making it completely bland and missing the mark." Followers proceed to go "Yea why'd you do this Company A! You made this car better but worse!" 

Duke said:

In reply to Tony Sestito :

Same thing kind of happened to the Neon.  The first gen came out, and everybody said, "This thing is a lot of fun to drive, but it's kind of buzzy and harsh and loud."

So Chrysler fixed all that in the second generation and nobody liked them or bought them except rental fleets.  Everybody said they were too soft and dull and had lost that essential Neon-ness that they loved.  Even the enthusiast-driven SRT-4 never sold that well.

There's just no berking pleasing people.

 

The SRT-4 sales were completely sabotaged by the dealers who had no freaking idea what it was.

Back in 2005, I was looking into buying my first new car and for a reason that now escapes me, I was dead set on getting an SRT-4.

First dealer I walked into straight up told me: "We don't have any SRT-4's and don't plan on getting any. No ones, going to buy them"

Second dealer didn't have any either and the sales rep tried to convince me that the PT Cruiser was the same because the engine was the same...

Third dealer was expecting one and was supposed to get back to me has soon as it arrived so I could check it out. A month later, after not getting any news from them, I called. They told me they cancelled their order because the sales boss didn't think it would sell even though they had my name and I was willing to buy it regardless of the colour...

So I bought a Subaru instead....

And this phenomenon happens a lot. Like when I was looking for a 3.5 Altima with a manual transmission. No dealers had them.... 

fanfoy said:

Duke said:

In reply to Tony Sestito :

Same thing kind of happened to the Neon.  The first gen came out, and everybody said, "This thing is a lot of fun to drive, but it's kind of buzzy and harsh and loud."

So Chrysler fixed all that in the second generation and nobody liked them or bought them except rental fleets.  Everybody said they were too soft and dull and had lost that essential Neon-ness that they loved.  Even the enthusiast-driven SRT-4 never sold that well.

There's just no berking pleasing people.

 

The SRT-4 sales were completely sabotaged by the dealers who had no freaking idea what it was.

Back in 2005, I was looking into buying my first new car and for a reason that now escapes me, I was dead set on getting an SRT-4.

First dealer I walked into straight up told me: "We don't have any SRT-4's and don't plan on getting any. No ones, going to buy them"

Second dealer didn't have any either and the sales rep tried to convince me that the PT Cruiser was the same because the engine was the same...

Third dealer was expecting one and was supposed to get back to me has soon as it arrived so I could check it out. A month later, after not getting any news from them, I called. They told me they cancelled their order because the sales boss didn't think it would sell even though they had my name and I was willing to buy it regardless of the colour...

So I bought a Subaru instead....

 

And this phenomenon happens a lot. Like when I was looking for a 3.5 Altima with a manual transmission. No dealers had them.... 

I'm glad you were spared from owning a Nissan.