Fat guy hiking???

Another comment on cotton - there's a saying in the search and rescue community: Cotton kills. If you are wearing cotton and it gets wet in cool, windy conditions, it's a real shortcut to hypothermia. I usually wear cotton myself for day hikes (it's dry where I live, and I'm a fair-weather hiker these days), but I always have rain gear with me. If you are going to wear cotton and there is any chance of wet conditions, be absolutely sure to have a rain suit, and a change of clothes in a plastic sack. I'm not being alarmist, just helpful.

Also the obvious: drink before you get thirsty, eat before you get hungry. Keep some source of quick energy with you - trail mix, granola bars, whatrever. If hypothermia starts to set in, you lose judgement quickly (I know from experience), so keep the furnace fueled.

And have fun, that's the whole idea!!

Respectfully, I must disagree with Mr Procaine vis a vis REI employees. I am currently a backpacking, camping, and footwear guy at REI. I used to work for Eastern Mountain Sports as procaine once did.

EMS paid much crappier wages with no benefits. REI makes the Forbes Magazine 100 Best Companies To Work For (usually top ten) every year. I am a part-timer with health care benefits, life insurance, and can split for the mountains as long as I give three weeks notice. Many of the people in my department are over 50 with tons of outdoor experience including big wall climbing at Yosemite, summiting Aconcagua (look it up), and multiple month-long backpacking trips for as long as 70 days (me). I planned and executed my first "real" backpacking trip on the Long Trail in VT (300 miles end-to-end in 20 days) at 16 years old in 1972. Tonight, I just gave the "Backpacking 101" lecture at the store and do the Mt Whitney lectures as well as ultralight backpacking etc.

Yes, shoe fit is the most important criteria when choosing footwear. Each manufacturer uses a different last. Many people previously discussed Vasque boots but they work best on narrow feet. Also, we've taken quite a few back recently with the EVA midsole disintegrating and allowing the outsole to break away.

Were I you, I'd try the Merrill Moab Ventilator in either the low cut or mid-ankle version. There is no waterproofing so they're one of the coolest (temperature-wise) shoes on the market as well as being the largest selling shoe in the world. They are very flexible with an aggressive sole tread so I would use them for day hikes. A shoe with more torsional rigidity like the Merrill Chameleon works better for carrying weight if you prefer to stay away from boots. Personally, I'm a boot man because I was a triple jumper in a previous life and have no virgin ankle tendons and/or liggies left.

Use a very light pair of liner socks and a heavier outer sock of either synthetic or wool. Use the thickness of the outer sock to tune the shoe fit. Two socks is cooler than one because you cut the boot-to-foot friction since the two socks slide against each other instead of your foot grinding. Plus, if the ground temp is hotter than your body temp, the sock combo does a better job keeping the hot out.

Cotton absorbs up to 11 times its weight in moisture so avoid it. Remember, hypothermia starts at 64 degrees with a wet body. The downside of synthetics is they get game-y after a few days on the trail. Luckily, they dry very quickly if you wash them. Of course, this does you no good if you tent mate(s) don't wash theirs.

I also teach the navigation classes as well. You don't need maps on your GPS. You can get by with a 100 dollar eTrex by learning how to navigate with the raw UTM numbers and a good map. Maps on a handheld GPS are of limited use other than the database. The screen is too small. A GPS is great for telling you where you are. The paper topo map gives you context, i.e where you are in relation to everything else (your car, the summit, the ranger station, the pizza place, etc). In ten minutes, you can learn how to locate yourself on a map within ten feet anywhere in America. All you need is a cheap GPS, a map, and a six-dollar piece of plastic called a UTM grid square. The total for all that goodness is about 114 bucks plus tax (100 dolllar GPS, eight dollar map, six dollar UTM square). I use an old Garmin 60cs with a cracked screen I bought at an REI used gear sale. There are no maps on it. The unit has limited memory.

No GPS manufacturer will tell you to go ahead and leave the paper map home. If handheld map software was so great, the military would use it. However, they navigate using a map and the method I outlined previously. I taught my wife how to do it in ten minutes. I use it to plot off-trail excursions through the Sierra and other places. You can work from the GPS to the map or from the map to the GPS for setting waypoints and plotting routes. It's navigational Megasquirt without soldering anything.

Regardless, it's great you discovered hiking and want to expand your knowledge. Your local REI has classes called Outdoor School for hands-on and boots-on-the-ground experience with a teacher. Good luck and feel free to ask any questions.

I find it amusing that anyone "needs" a GPS.

<- Has backpacked hundreds of miles with nothing but a Topo map and compass.

DILYSI Dave wrote: I find it amusing that anyone "needs" a GPS. <- Has backpacked hundreds of miles with nothing but a Topo map and compass.

I've backpacked THOUSANDS of miles with a topo map and compass including cross-country trips off the trail. I can find true north using nothing but an analog wrist watch and the sun. My navigational skills started with a scoutmaster who spent WWII in the nose of a B-29 navigating between Tinian and Japan. A one degree error in that trip results in being 24 miles off course with 20 minutes of fuel left and an island socked in by weather so believe me when I tell you I was taught by the best.

I can triangulate a position very quickly and can walk a bearing with very little error. However, GPS is the greatest navigational invention since the compass and one of the truly great things we've done. Some people find it impossible to adjust for declination and take a back bearing. Real navigation (read: bring a map) with a handheld GPS is easier to learn than a map and compass with an accuracy of three meters in the USA.

It's very difficult to navigate accurately with a map and compass in places like the desert where everything looks like it could be what you're staring at on the map. Topo maps get more inaccurate in places like the desert because it's hard to get people out there to do the field checking. Hell, there's a major mistake on the Pasadena topo map that covers my neighborhood. There's a church on the wrong street corner. Someone using that church for a landmark is screwed.

UTM was developed in WWII as a way to report coordinates more accurately for calling in artillery barrages and air strikes while someone is shooting at you. So it becomes extremely easy to use when no one is shooting at you. Ignoring that kind of navigational power is like ignoring cars altogether and walking the 20 miles to work every day. It's fine if you want to do that but don't poo-poo everyone who drives.

Having said that, holding a GPS in your hand doesn't bestow magical oracle powers. You still need to know how to exploit it to the fullest extent. It's like handing Andy Pobst and myself a Ferrari and telling us to hot lap Willow Springs as fast as possible. Who will wring more out of the car?

Additionally, I have a few GPS customers who work the high tension lines running through the desert. Maps don't show all the dirt roads formed when people start cowboying around on impromptu off-road excursions so finding the right dirt road to the right transmission tower can be daunting. The linemen exchange waypoint and route info so they don't waste time trying to find the right tower. The first waypoint is the exit point from the main road and the last one is the tower in question. Evidently, there's quite a database for all this info.

Utah is especially bad. Many dirt roads don't show up on maps. They were formed by folks prospecting for uranium in the '50s and '60s. The USGS does a fine job updating their maps but they don't get to 'em all.

I agree that it's a good tool. I also think that knowing within 3 meters exactly where you are in the world kills some of the mystique. My favorite part of backpacking was the surprises and the "how the hell am I gonna get out of this situation". If I know that there's a 7-11 1/4 mile down that hill, then I'm missing out on the best parts..

Sorry, but when leading others on a trip, I'll leave the mystique home and settle for knowing where I am. It also means while someone else is still trying to figure out where they are, I'll be napping in some meadow at 10, 000 feet or otherwise enjoying a bluebird day up in the mountains.

Hey, would you assemble an engine without checking and knowing the piston-to-valve clearance because you enjoy the "mystique?"

Also, it's three meters in America and some other developed nations and ten meters for a great portion of the world.

Different strokes.

Different strokes? Finish your engine without knowing the piston-to-valve clearance is OK. I wouldn't diss the GPS, just like I wouldn't diss you for doing everything you can to make sure your new motor stays together. If you could find 50 more horsepower with no durability or mileage penalty and to do so cost 114 bucks plus tax, you'd be on it in a heartbeat.

Put that trashed piston from your last motor anywhere in the world above water, send me the coordinates, and I'll find it. Of course you'll reimburse me for travel.

That's not a fair comparison. You're assumption is that, like a blueprinted engine, a GPS in the backpack is better. I'm saying that it takes away from the experience, not adds to it. When I'm in the woods I want to get away from the modern world, not drag it with me.

You and me both. So leave your compass at home too. It was perfected in 1328 which is modern history. Better yet, take off your high-tech shoes and go barefoot, do without that lightweight tent, eat nothing but what you kill or forage, start a fire with a bow and drill, leave your headlamp at home, sleep on the ground and keep yourself warm by burying yourself in rotting plant life. That way your experience will be as "pure" as possible. By the way, I've already done all that.

Taking a GPS does nothing to degrade the wilderness experience any more than your backpack does. It doesn't transport me or shield me from the elements or do anything other than tell me where I am with certainty if I know how to interpret it correctly.

Once again, I usually find myself responsible for the safety and welfare of others (my wife at the very least) when I'm out on a trip. This includes paying customers. I owe it to them to to be as informed as possible with the best tools available, not only about navigation but first aid, altitude, and survival. I do my best to impart as much of that knowledge as possible so they can learn to be independent in the backcountry as well.

So, yes, it is like blueprinting a motor. You do it to ensure its long-term survival. You are successful in part in part because you know everything about it and use the best parts and processes you can afford. Yet, no one dies or gets hurt if you don't do that, though your wallet takes a beating. I do it in the woods to make sure everyone has as good a time as possible as safely as possible.

Somehow GPS didn't degrade that first view I got of Hitchcock Lakes from Trail Crest on the shoulder of Mt Whitney. Cried like a baby on that one. Having a GPS doesn't stop my wife and I from dancing on mountain tops. "Getting away" is a mindset more than anything else.

Okay, so we got off topic here. Toyman, I'm here for ya if you want some advice. Good talking with you Dave. I enjoy your latest build and follow along. Gotta go make some money.

I don't have a gps, but want one. I particuraly like the Garmin Rino's. My friend used to have a pair and we would give one to the fast guys and one to the slow guys. Not only could they talk to each other with the FRS they could tell where each other was on a map.

A complete luxury, but cool.

Plus, geocaching is cool and I want to do it with my little girl one day.

ignorant wrote: I don't have a gps, but want one. I particuraly like the Garmin Rino's. My friend used to have a pair and we would give one to the fast guys and one to the slow guys. Not only could they talk to each other with the FRS they could tell where each other was on a map. A complete luxury, but cool. Plus, geocaching is cool and I want to do it with my little girl one day.

REI sold the Rino but we gave up on it because it didn't sell. I think it's a good idea but our customers weren't interested. It's probably better in other areas like surveying or pipelines or electrical work where the crew is all over the map. I could also see it with a large hiking party like you described, especially if they're loaded with the same waypoints.

Meanwhile, a Garmin eTrex Venture is great for geocaching. REI sells them for 20 bucks less than list at $149.95. Plus, you get ten percent off that price (in the form of a dividend at the end of the year) if you're a member.

The Venture has a color screen that eats less power than the black and white screen in the cheaper units. Plus, it accepts any USB cable for downloading geocache coordinates from geocache.com. The cheaper model eTrex ( the "H" iirc) uses a proprietary serial connector to hook up with a computer. The cable doesn't come with the unit and costs about 35 bucks from Garmin. So spend the extra 15 clams and get the color screen and USB.

You and your daughter can learn how to use it together.

I dug through my junk and came up with my old first GPS. It's an Magellan Map 330. I was kind of surprised it still powered up. It hasn't been used in over a year. It took it a while to find the satellites, but seems to be working fine. I think I will use it for now. It isn't color, nor will it tell you where the 7-11 is, but it will tell you where you are. I bought a compass too. I have also downloaded and printed the maps for the Palmetto Trail. I still have to pick up film for my lamination machine so they will survive getting wet. The only thing I haven't made progress with is boots. Hopefully I will have a chance in the next week or so to actually look for a pair.

Probably the smartest thing I have done is to start walking daily. I haven't walked for exercise in better than 20 years. Of all the preparation I am doing that will probably make the most difference. I started at one mile at a fast pace. Well fast for me, about 3 mph. Over the next month I will stretch that out to three or four miles. By then it will be cool enough during the day to try the first section of the trail. It's 7 miles long. This hike should give me a base speed so I can plan the rest of the sections. It will also tell me whether or not the gear I am getting works or not. The next section is 47 miles. I figure on doing it in four days over two weekends about a month apart. This may change depending on what I find out on the first 7 mile section.

I would like to do one hike a month skipping the coldest and the hottest months. Some of them will be one day hikes, some of them will be all weekend with a camp stop around the half way point. Realistically it will probably take me two years to complete the entire trail. That is subject to change as I learn what the hell I'm doing. Slower is more likely than faster.

That's the plan so far. It coming together good in my head but like most plans it won't survive contact with the enemy. I am probably being too ambitious.

I'm always interested in pointers and suggestions. The more I can learn from you guys the less I have to learn the hard way. Thanks for the help so far.

A quick tip for cheap, but effective rain gear that weighs almost nothing, and costs almost nothing - take a large - say 45 gallon or so - contractor thickness trash bag. It takes no space, and cutting a hole for your head makes an effective poncho for emergency use. It won't breathe well, though, so real rain gear is more comfortable if you have to wear it for a long time, but the bag is a great emergency backup. I've also used a cheap painter's dropcloth in a pinch, and usually always have one in my autocross gear in case I need to keep my stuff dry (that has been removed from the car) during a rain shower.

I finally got a pair of boots. I ended up with the Merrell Moab Mid boots. I also picked up a couple of pairs of Smart Wool socks. Of all the boots I tried the Merrells had the best arch support. They felt great from the moment I put them on which is usually a good sign. I got them from Half-Moon Outfitters. I hope to be ready to tackle the first seven mile section by the end of September.

I love SmartWool socks but I also found getting some of these do a world of good and I wouldn't think of doing any hiking with out them under the Smartwools.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0005495821330a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=polypropylene+socks&Ntk=Products&sort=all&Go.y=0&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&Go.x=0

Jim Pettengill wrote: A quick tip for cheap, but effective rain gear that weighs almost nothing, and costs almost nothing - take a large - say 45 gallon or so - contractor thickness trash bag. It takes no space, and cutting a hole for your head makes an effective poncho for emergency use. It won't breathe well, though, so real rain gear is more comfortable if you have to wear it for a long time, but the bag is a great emergency backup. I've also used a cheap painter's dropcloth in a pinch, and usually always have one in my autocross gear in case I need to keep my stuff dry (that has been removed from the car) during a rain shower.

+1 here.

If your fancy rain gear or insulating is compromised, that trash bag can save your ass. Lives have been saved with those things in the wilderness.

Toyman01 wrote: I finally got a pair of boots. I ended up with the Merrell Moab Mid boots. I also picked up a couple of pairs of Smart Wool socks. Of all the boots I tried the Merrells had the best arch support. They felt great from the moment I put them on which is usually a good sign. I got them from Half-Moon Outfitters. I hope to be ready to tackle the first seven mile section by the end of September.

Good choice on the boots. You'll like them as much a year from now as you do today. Now go wear 'em out.

Re: Rain.

I go to great lengths to keep my pack dry, and nearly no effort to keep me dry. Hiking in ponchos is annoying. I typically hike in boots and Umbro shorts. Rarely a shirt as it just becomes a wet layer of insulation in short order. The Umbros are nice because you can wash them every night in the creek and they dry quickly, so you've got fresh shorts everyday without packing a lot of changes of clothes. I suspect if I were to pick hiking back up now, some compression undies would be added to the mix, versus the tighty-whiteys. A side benefit of this level of clothing is that if it rains, who cares. Keep the pack dry, and keep moving. Keeping myself dry becomes unimportant.

Note - This applies to spring-fall hiking in the south. Don't do this if you're gonna go get hypothermia on us.

2nd the merrells. I LOVE mine. Low Moab in the summer, and an insulated mid for the winter.

If it is spring/summer/fall - I prefer to be as close to barefoot as possible and use Merrel stuff because its rugged and you can walk right thru streams. They make really good soles for sticking to slippery logs/rocks and I have in the past had their regular hiking shoes and would buy them again... I just like the open air on the peds if I can get it.

These did about 40 miles in the Smokey Mountains in one week without a blister.

Merrel Saugatuck

For snow and other more rugged stuff like stomping in heavy brush: Wolverines

That last pair are awesome but... I primarily used them for hunting, shoveling snow, etc. They are too hot for anything that isn't below freezing but mine are over 10yrs old and they still look new so the general quality is excellent. They make more breathable ones but I have no exp. with them.

Boot comment - Why the hell does every boot now look like it was designed by an NBA player. Sure, the colors are a bit more subtle, but the styling is right off of the side of the latest nike.

I put about four miles on the boots Sunday. Love them so far. The shape of the sole makes them easier to walk in than the tennis shoes I usually wear. The socks made all the difference in the world. I was surprised at how well they worked at keeping my feet dry. I'll be buying some of them for everyday wear.

As far as being susceptible to hypothermia, not a problem. I am well insulated like a walrus. I start sweating in March and stop in November. As long as my core is warm, the rest doesn't bother me. Working outside all year long, I know how to keep the core warm for those few months I get cold.

The compression shorts sounded like a good idea to me when I read up on them this weekend. I ordered four pair of Under Armor drawers Sunday to wear under regular pants. They should be in this week. They are supposed to help with the "friction" and sweating in other places kind of like the socks do. After doing a lot of reading, listening to you guys, and seeing how well the socks worked, the cotton is gone for everything except outer layers. Most of them will be synthetic also.

The first practice hike in the woods will hopefully be this weekend, weather permitting. Sunday morning early is supposed to be in the high 60s. Only two miles on the Ion Swamp Trail, but I've got to start somewhere realistic. It should let me know whether or not the pack I have will work for me. My torso length is right at the upper recommended limit. I don't want to get ten miles from the car and realize I screwed up in getting gear. Wish me luck, I'll probably need it.

Thanks again for all the input. It has help a lot and probably saved me some painful lessons.

Compression shorts helped me a lot dirt biking. There's a horrible affliction of dirt bikers called 'monkey butt' and that's the only thing that helps keep it at bay.

Well, compression shorts and this:

It's for real and it works.