Fiat reaches agreement to own Chrysler 100%

http://www.freep.com/article/20140101/BUSINESS0103/301010073/Fiat-reaches-agreement-UAW-acquire-rest-Chrysler-shares-held-by-retiree-trust

Not sure how I feel about this. I'm just a bit leery of things thanks to the previous "merger of equals."

I'm leery, too. Fiat really wants Chrysler's cash, and it wouldn't surprise me if they reel in North American development work once they get the money to shore up their European operations. This is the company that put in a clause in a deal that forced GM to pay Fiat 2 billion dollars, so GM wouldn't be forced to buy Fiat.

well.. they can't screw up Chrysler any more than it is?

Jeep Curse in action?

Take a lesson from the Miata/Beetle/Mini/Camaro/Challenger/Charger book and re-boot the 124 coupe.

More proof that the people at Fiat are totally INSANE!

Mazda787b wrote: http://www.freep.com/article/20140101/BUSINESS0103/301010073/Fiat-reaches-agreement-UAW-acquire-rest-Chrysler-shares-held-by-retiree-trust Not sure how I feel about this. I'm just a bit leery of things thanks to the previous "merger of equals."

Not sure about the "forced" part of that. GM entered into that agreement and read the contract, including the escape clause. Who is the smart one? Who is not?

mad_machine wrote: well.. they can't screw up Chrysler any more than it is?

Maybe when they first took it over. Right now, it's doing pretty well.

Things were doing just fine before Mercedes came along (mid-90s). I wonder how things would've played out if Benz hadn't hacked everything up.

For now they are.. but Chrysler is deep into doing the same thing they always do. Building bigger and bigger cars until economy takes a dive and they find themselves without any small cars that people want to own.

Then they build a successful small car and when Chrysler's fortunes turn around again, they dump it and build huge cars again.

We have seen it with the K car and the Neon.. if not for Fiat, we would not the Dart right now

Sadly, Fiat needs Chrysler to stay alive, which was completely opposite only a few years ago.

Scott_H wrote:

Mazda787b wrote: http://www.freep.com/article/20140101/BUSINESS0103/301010073/Fiat-reaches-agreement-UAW-acquire-rest-Chrysler-shares-held-by-retiree-trust Not sure how I feel about this. I'm just a bit leery of things thanks to the previous "merger of equals."

Not sure about the "forced" part of that. GM entered into that agreement and read the contract, including the escape clause. Who is the smart one? Who is not?

GM voluntarily agreed to the deal, but I don't think they believed the clause would ever be invoked. As I understand, even though he wasn't CEO yet, Wagoner was heavily involved in that deal. Talk about failing upward...

Mazda787b wrote:

mad_machine wrote: well.. they can't screw up Chrysler any more than it is?

Maybe when they first took it over. Right now, it's doing pretty well. Things were doing just fine before Mercedes came along (mid-90s). I wonder how things would've played out if Benz hadn't hacked everything up.

I know some people who were at Jeep for that period and Chrysler needed Daimlers money. In the end the culture clash hacked the deal.

Remember, Chrysler was given to fiat for intellectual property. Basically here take it.

Its like they are an aircraft that keeps loosing speed and can't figure out why. So they increase angle of attack to stay in the air. They treat the symptom not the problem. You can only increase aoa for so long until you stall out and are sent hurtling towards earth to meet your fiery demise.

They were far enough up to lose altitude, use that momentum to gain some airspeed and level off. It they are still losing airspeed though, so they didn't fix the problem and its only a matter of time before they stall again. I don't know that they have enough space to recover though.

Metaphors aside, I like the 500 (abarth in particular) and the challenger and the 300 as far as styling goes. But Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep build quality and material quality needs to improve before I would ever consider one. And that is coming from a guy that drives a 10 year old Mitsubishi.

Chrysler doesn't build good enough cars and I can't quite see Fiat helping that out much.

Lancer007 wrote: But Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep build quality and material quality needs to improve before I would ever consider one. And that is coming from a guy that drives a 10 year old Mitsubishi.

Hell, I thought they had been doing better in the last few years. Remember what the 90's were like for that company. My parents always bought Chrysler products and with that came buying many transmissions. After seeing that crap growing up I said I would never own a Chrysler product. Well, the latest Challengers and Chargers are pretty cool.

They are getting better no doubt. But being that I work at a job where I'm taking them apart often on a daily basis, cars of all vintages. The quality of materials still needs work. GM and Ford have made great improvements here but not Chrysler. The main problem is that so many parts are plastic and the formula that Chrysler uses doesn't age well here in the desert. It gets dried out, shrinks, splits on its own and self destructs if you try and mess with it. Even after only 1-2 years in some cases. Ford and GM seem to have fixed this so its not impossible. Just my personal observations though.

Everybody has a bad taste of old Chrysler in their mouth, kind of like the Malaise era GM diesels. Since Fiat has helped Chrysler out of the hole, their build quality has gone up significantly. I'm pretty sure they are not facing the same quality issues they had no less than 5 years ago. I have looked in and out of various Chrysler vehicles and am impressed that the interiors are no longer of rental car quality. They are using new transmissions. They are keeping up with the competition, while not passing it, they are definitely not out for the count.

In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:

Your last post is exactly what I was thinking. Even about the interiors. I've been in one 2014 Charger at work and it was really damn nice inside. I don't get to pull in very many cars outside of BMWs and Mercedes so when I do, it's a treat.

In reply to eastsidemav:

Yes, FUMU.

Eff up, move up.

I worked for Faurecia out of the SC plant. That plant serviced the BMW plant in Greenville (I was there for the X6 launch) MB out of Alabama and did Saturn stuff as well.

I went to our facilities in and around Detroit for training and coverage and those plants supported Chrysler (we made enough of the Sebring we could have actually renamed it) and GM.

Chrysler quality was the easiest to get by. Get your paperwork in and they didn't care about the actual part. Saturn on the other hand had stiffer requirements than BMW on somethings.

I would have to say if you took BOM catelog from Faurecia, Leer, Molley, Bosch, Holley, Dana, Richmond, and TRW you get 90% of 90% of the cars on the road today.

Those that decry Chrysler quality have not been in a new Grand Cherokee.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Yes I have, the Chrysler LHX was a nice car to sit in too. Just don't expect it to run long and stay together.

I do like the new Grand Cherokee. I bitch about normal vehicle new prices, I looked at an Overland edition Grand Cherokee and that thing is in MB/Audi/BMW territory.

Uh NO!

I have rented 2 2500 Hemi quad cab pickups lately, pretty decent trucks IMHO. The 2014 Ford F250 5.0 was about the equal but there wasn't much between them.

Now don't get me wrong. Chrysler as put out some of the most innovative and intriguing designs on their lots of any company. They really do try to push the envelope. IMHO is when they go that extra mile they have to cut corners to get the price down where the vehicle will sell is where the problems start. They start under specing transmissions and axles and start allowing marginal build materials. They will open up tolerance gaps to get per part piece price down. They will crank up assembly speeds and allow for more rework and open up assembly acceptance tolerances. It just gets sloppy.

People wonder why the old Honda Motorcycles were so good. Have any of you ever looked in the cases? They were as nice clean and finished on the inside as the painted stuff outside. They took pride and built with quality. That costs money, but it isn't seen. Easy to side step on what isn't immediately seen.

I truly want to love Chrysler stuff. I have had a few Jeeps in my day, along with their headaches and joys.

In the end Chrysler is like that old girlfriend you used to have great "coloring" with. You can't remember why it didn't work, just that the "coloring" was great. Then the morning after comes and you go, "ohhhh, THAT'S why we aren't together anymore."

Flight Service wrote: Now don't get me wrong. Chrysler as put out some of the most innovative and intriguing designs on their lots of any company. They really do try to push the envelope. IMHO is when they go that extra mile they have to cut corners to get the price down where the vehicle will sell is where the problems start. They start under specing transmissions and axles and start allowing marginal build materials. They will open up tolerance gaps to get per part piece price down. They will crank up assembly speeds and allow for more rework and open up assembly acceptance tolerances. It just gets sloppy. People wonder why the old Honda Motorcycles were so good. Have any of you ever looked in the cases? They were as nice clean and finished on the inside as the painted stuff outside. They took pride and built with quality. That costs money, but it isn't seen. Easy to side step on what isn't immediately seen. I truly want to love Chrysler stuff. I have had a few Jeeps in my day, along with their headaches and joys. In the end Chrysler is like that old girlfriend you used to have great "coloring" with. You can't remember why it didn't work, just that the "coloring" was great. Then the morning after comes and you go, "ohhhh, THAT'S why we aren't together anymore."

We have a 99 Cherokee with 180k miles and a 2012 wrangler with 34k miles. Great experiences with both and the Cherokee is still going strong with no major repairs.... Doubt I'll ever sell it. I've had better luck with my Chrysler products (owned 5) than my Toyota products (owned 6).