Figuring out How to Follow a Dream: Professional Brewing

Okay, so I've been home brewing for about a year now and have a great love of beer. I've decided that professional brewing is my dream job that I can realistically achieve with some time, money, and effort. Now I'm trying to figure out how best to go about it. I know there's at least one pro-brewer on here, and I'm sure other people who know about taking the plunge to reach for a new career.

The big thing I'm torn between is whether to try to get practical brewing experience or academic training first. Or just to jump for whichever I can get first.

Right now, I'm trying to pester local breweries to see if someone will take me on as an apprentice, or just to do the schlep work. I currently am a teacher at a private school, so I'll have the summer to really bug people regularly.

I'm also trying to figure out about good educational programs. Brewing schools are majorly expensive. Fortunately, it looks like my grandparents might be willing to bankroll me to study, if I can reasonably assure them that it will really lead me to a job, and not just be a lark. I'm fortunate to be right near two excellent U.S. programs: UC Davis Brewing and the American Brewers Guild

I'm really strongly thinking about studying in Europe though. Prices are comparable, and it would be pretty awesome to study brewing in Germany, especially since I never studied abroad in college. Looking at a couple programs in Germany or the UK:

VLB (Berlin) - Expensive but sounds really awesome

Doemens (in Munich)

Institute of Brewing and Distilling (UK) - With a number of programs, including a Diploma in Brewing Modules program that looks like a great starting point, and less expensive than pretty much any other program I've looked at.

I have thought about this as well. From what I have seen you at least need a degree from a brewing school or a food science/fermented foods degree to start out with.

I've considered a similar path in wine making- same kind of schools and interships/appretice programs required.

Good luck with it! Remember, to really master the different, you need to be a master at the ordinary.

(EDIT- while you are doing beer, if they have programs about distillation and aging of alcohol, take them, too. I'm sometimes amazed that more niche beer makers don't also make whisky. Some groups even get molassas and make special rums... may come in handy)

Love the avatar.

A friend of mine wanted me to plant sugar cane on my 50 acre home so he could build a still and make rum to sell, and ethanol for his race car.

The wife said "NO!" LOL

Good luck to you in your adventures and we all hope to be drinking your brew soon!

Funny, when I first read the topic, I thought you wanted to pursue the dream of becoming a "Professional Bowler"....

Study this guy. What a great success story.

Dogfish Head article

One Crafty Rider Sam Calagione, the owner of Dogfish Head Brewery and star of the new Discovery Channel show brew masters, talks about blasting punk music on rides--and why getting a tattoo with a date on it can be a bad, bad idea By JeanneEmery

You live in Lewes, Delaware, the first town in the first state in the nation.
Lewes is the main ferry stop for cyclists headed to Cape May, New Jersey, so some mornings our town looks like the starting line for the Tour de France.

Brewing is a fickle, time-consuming process. How often do you get out on the bike?
I ride through Henlopen State Park every morning on a 55-minute loop. It's incredible; I see osprey, dolphins, plenty of wildlife. I travel every other week for Brew Masters, so I like to spend the weekends with the family. We ride the Breakwater path from our home in Lewes to the brew pub in Rehoboth.

Tell us about your bikes.
I ride a Mudhoney 'cross bike from Seven. I wanted a new bike as a gift to myself for quitting smoking. They printed "Off-Centered Trails for Off-Centered People" [a play on Dogfish's tagline] on it. As a trade we brewed them a beer for their 10-year anniversary. I also have a Salsa Chili Con Crosso and a Specialized Rockhopper.

Do you always barter with beer?
That wasn't about money. These guys inspired us to think about a new combination of flavors. Everything we create at Dogfish comes from some external inspiration, which means I want to be around entrepreneurs and artists like the guys at Seven.

Speaking of artists, we hear you have a tattoo with a story.
I had "For Sammy: 01-01-01" inked on my hip to commemorate my son's birth and to signal my motivation for quitting smoking. The first attempt failed.…I didn't get the bike until I was smoke-free for one year, so now it reads "07."

What's your riding style?
I do almost everything wrong: I blast punk music like Pavement and the Replacements while hammering out of my saddle. Hard-core cyclists yell at me, but I love it. When I'm on the bike I'm dreaming up ideas for beers and thinking: Don't tell me this can't be done. What the @#$%? Let's do this.

Craft brewers seem to connect to cycling; almost every brewery has kits for sale. Why is that?
Because we aren't multinational corporations interested in selling you packaging instead of beer. We are creative and competitive, independent and hardworking. It's just like die-hard cyclists: They tend to be the same kinds of thinkers and hands-on types. And yes, we sell jerseys.

What about your competition?
I was on a national morning show talking about craft beers and brought samples, including New Belgium's Fat Tire Ale. The next week this box arrives with a New Belgium–themed bike. Coors wouldn't do that, but guys who have bike-in movies and the Tour de Fat? Always. I'm not afraid of competition; I embrace it. Craft-beer drinkers are promiscuous--I drink plenty of other beers. We just want them to stop by and screw us once in a while. Source URL: http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/one-crafty-rider

alfadriver wrote: Good luck with it! Remember, to really master the different, you need to be a master at the ordinary. (EDIT- while you are doing beer, if they have programs about distillation and aging of alcohol, take them, too. I'm sometimes amazed that more niche beer makers don't also make whisky. Some groups even get molassas and make special rums... may come in handy)

I totally agree on mastering the ordinary. I've been brewing for a lot less time than many others, and I know my beers are better because I don't go crazy, and don't throw the wisdom of centuries out the window trying to reinvent the wheel. I firmly believe that, even if you use someone else's recipe completely, you will still come up with your own beer, because brewer skill and technique really matter.

My current brewing plan is to experiment with a bunch of different styles/recipes and perfect two basic recipes: a Saison (well, sort of a 50% Saison, 35% Belgian Golden, 15% West-Coast Pale ale fusion) and a Holiday Ale. I'm also thinking of trying to perfect a subtle session ale. Anyone can do big flavors, it takes skill to pull of subtle ones.

That said, I dislike the basic style guidelines. I got really mixed reviews when I entered an earlier Saison I did for judging at a Brewers' club meeting. Most people really loved it (probably the most popular beer for Belgians night) but one of the judges gave it his lowest score for the evening because it varied a bit too far from the guidelines for a saison, particularly in being "not dry enough".

Distilling is tougher, legally. Especially since I'm in an apartment.

Dyintorace:

I haven't ordered it yet, but I am totally planning to buy Sam C's book. That guy is my frickin' hero.

Please tell me more about this Brewer's Club in Sacramento.

If brewing is calling to you then I suggest that you start by talking to people who do it already for living. Track down people in the local breweries but rather than asking for an apprenticeship, ask if they would be willing to meet with you for 30 minutes or so and answer some questions.

Your intro could be something like this: "My name is Salanis. (mention a name of someone who they know) suggested that I talk to you. I am interested in getting into brewing as a profession. I doing research with people in the industry. Would you be willing to meet with me for 20 to 30 minutes or so to answer some questions? Chances are even the businest master brewer will make 20 to 30 minute for you. If they say yes than set up a meeting.

Questions you might ask are: What kind training does he/she think should you be pursuing? What is the reputation in the industry of the programs you mentioned above? What are the biggest misconceptions people have about the business and the work itself? What are personality traits of people who succed in the profession? What advise would he/she give to someone getting started in the profession? My experience has been when a conversation gets going you may very well go past 30 minutes, but you need to be ready to stop there.

They last and most important question to ask is "Who else would you recommend talking to?" Try to get at least two names. Then have a conversation with these two people.

This will accomplish two important things. First you will get a realistic picture of what the work is and what you need to do to get where you want to go. Second, you get to know to people in the industry. You'll likely be seen as someone who is thoughtful and serious about making it a profession. You are much more likely to find your way into an apprenticeship if they get to know you and see some of what you made of in this kind of setting.

Salanis wrote: Distilling is tougher, legally. Especially since I'm in an apartment.

Legally impossible. but I was just pointing out that if you distill one of your mashes, and treat it right, you may be able to make a lot more money selling it than the beer- including all of the work.

Good alcohol sells for a pretty high premium, AND it would set your company apart from others, too.

That's more of a long term business thing, not for home at all. Again, IF you find some classes in alcohol or distillation, while you are learning beer making, take them.

Also, learn marketing. A lot of it. There's a reason that Fat Tire is so popular. And only part of it is because it is good beer.

Have fun, and I hope that the process of learning it does not kill the passion.

There HAS to be a professional micro-brewery association. (There is an association for everything...) I'd track them down, and see what they have to say.

Secondly, decide if you're going to be a brewery and sell just the liquid, or a microbrewery/restaurant. There is a big difference. I know one guy who threw everything into the latter, and it died a slow death. Location, location, location and proper economic demand/customers in the area. The lack of those killed it for him.

Use your summer to somehow advance this goal. Don't waste it. Even if if costs you time away from home, etc... The Dogfish brewery story even made it to TV in a 5 part(?) series.

How's your business acumen? Qualified to be CEO and deal with distribution, advertising, etc...if you start your own, or better off getting with a position with an established company and learn where you're strengths and weaknesses are?

Type Q's advice is spot on.

The studying in german thing: can you speak the technical language of a plumber and chemist in german?

Good luck, don't blow your grandparent's money on a lark.

Here in Ontario we have these "brew by you" businesses for beer and wine. Basically, we go to their facility and use their equipment and wine/beer making kits while they supervise. When the beer is ready we go back and bottle it ourselves using their equipment. Its a pecularity in Canadian law, but it costs us a lot less money for beer or wine than purchasing retail, mainly because we avoid the associated taxes. I don't know what training the owners have to get, but I don't think its all that extensive.

I'm not sure if you have such set ups in our area, but up here some people are making good livings with these type of set ups.

They do in downtown Sacramento, it is called Brew it Up.

I've had a quick look around - if you want to properly study brewing, the TU (Technical University) München has a program that'll lead to a brewmaster degree. IIRC that's going to be at least 8 semesters though if you're hurrying and are proficient in German. That's probably one of the best degrees you can get for brewing though, a lot of breweries will know what it means that you've studied in Weihenstephan, plus it's an accredited university.

Out of the other two German, VLB looks better to me.

TBH if I were you I'd probably look into the UC Davis program and build on that.

There is an old saying among brewers; If you want to make a small fortune brewing beer, start with a large fortune...

Having been brewing for 3+ years and having 5 close friends with whom I also brew let me tell you that for every success story there are 100's of failures. Even "big breweries" like Sam Adams account for a very small portion of total beer sales.

If you want to start your OWN brewery good luck, pray lots, and hope for the best, its that hard, if you want to simply brew with an established company, brewery school is one avenue.

But you HAVE to master the BJCP standards, you cannot expect to break the rules and get away with it until you can master the rules in the first place.

So until you can produce a Saison that meets the BJCP standards and places respectably, I would say slow down trying to re-invent it with your hybrid conglomeration or else your just going with a SWAG, and if you cannot decide WHAT your doing and justify it it's useless... even though the DFH guy does crazy stuff I guarantee he could brew any style to pretty much perfect guidelines standards, and that knowledge is what allows him to break the rules successfully and still produce and sell product...

Didn't we just have a thread about someone getting promoted to brewer after starting in the mail room, or sweeping or something?

Edit: It was Twin_Cam's thread here: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/i-ask-everyone-politely-to-drink-a-beer/32280/page1/

He can probably help you out.

Bob

As far as studying in Germany goes, the programs I am looking at are English Language programs that cater to an international crowd.

I'm not thinking of starting my own brewery. My general plan would be to get an assistant brewer position in an established or opening brewery, spend some time, get more education, and hunt for or work my way up to a head brewer position. If that works, I might consider starting my own place.

I don't think I'd be very good at running my own business. I'm not good at detailed book keeping kind of stuff.

Brew It Up is cool for having your own beer brewed, but most of the real work is done by their staff. I'm on good terms with the owner and am trying to get a chance to sit down with him to discuss if I could be a guest brewer to put my holiday ale up on tap next holiday season.

imirk wrote: Please tell me more about this Brewer's Club in Sacramento.

There are several clubs in the region. I typically go to the Gold Country Brewers Association (GCBA) meetings. They're held the 2nd Tuesday of each month, over at the Unitarian church on Sierra Blvd. (near Loehman's Plaza). So you just missed that one, but if you're like me, you were probably still recovering from beer week.

There's also BASS (Brewing Appreciation Society of Sacramento... or something like that).

Or if you just want to hang out and do some brewing and drinking, let me know. An extra pair of hands is handy, and I like having company while chained to a kitchen for several hours. Someone who appreciates beer and cars is always cool.

Type Q wrote: If brewing is calling to you then I suggest that you start by talking to people who do it already for living. Track down people in the local breweries but rather than asking for an apprenticeship, ask if they would be willing to meet with you for 30 minutes or so and answer some questions.

Great advice. Thank you much. That's pretty similar to my current game plan, but you offered some good refinements I can go with when actually talking to people. I have two first targets picked out (head brewers at the two most significant local breweries), I'm just having trouble showing up when they're around due to my work schedule. I could probably drop them a line and see if they'd be willing to meet me after hours.

bigbens6 wrote: But you HAVE to master the BJCP standards, you cannot expect to break the rules and get away with it until you can master the rules in the first place.

Let me clarify. I'm not going for something new and crazy and wild, but taking something established and tweaking it a little. It should still be within style (especially for something as broad as a Saison), maybe just a bit closer to the edges.

Basically, I'm aiming for a slightly less-dry, clearer, and more smooth saison; still spicy but slightly less barn-y. I tried a Brasserie St. Feuillien recently, and that's pretty close to my target.

I'm going with a pretty standard malt profile: pils base, and a bit of cara-something (munich or red), munich, wheat, and maybe oats. I'm aiming for a final gravity of about 1.012 instead of the popular under-1.009. I've found I really like the White Labs Saison/Belgian yeast blend because it gives me a few more fruit notes and I'm adjusting my recipe to play to the strengths of that yeast. This time I'm also going to try using pearl and nelson sauvin instead of the hallertau I've used the past couple times.

The saison is just an example, the point is that to be sucessful you need to know guidelines for anything you brew first and foremost before you can expand sucessfully. Your first job is prolly gonna be grunt work, being able to know that your company's pilsner is striking too hot or cold, that the gravity is or is not acceptable and the repercussions of thosei s important, same for their IPA, Brown, Winter, Belgin....

It seems to me, the biggest step from being a home brewer to any sort of production brewer is a matter of consistancy and being able to translate the recipe for a home-size batch into one that can be bottled and sold. And then to be able to do it again so the next batch tastes the same as the first. If you screw up a home batch, it's not a big deal. Screw up a production batch and it'll cost a lot of money in time, materials and energy.

I believe that's what they mean when being able to brew to a standard. To practice being consistant.

Have you considered Nanobrewing? A storage locker, some fancier bigger SS pots and you can begin selling your own beer. Grab the book Brewing Up a Business by Sam Calgione and get creative. You can maintain your normal work, most likely make more money by maintaining your current job and get your own creations out there.

I believe the CA laws are actually very favorable towards nanobrewing, and after about 4k in licensing fees/business bond and such you can be selling your beer.

Also, if you want job postings, check here: http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=29

I looked into brewing as a career and with my student loans, quickly found out I couldn't afford to do it for a living. Also, check out some of the nanobrewing threads over on homebrewtalk.com . There should be a thread with a CA guy doing from beginning to end. He can't quit his day job yet, but makes enough money to support the business itself.

I dunno if there's more than one "pro" brewer on here, or if you meant me I'm famous! [/ego inflation]

I did it the hard way, the way that requires a hell of a lot of working overtime and a lot of sweat and luck. I did work on the bottling line (pretty horrible work...there are better minimum wage jobs), and just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Some breweries won't care if you have schooling, they'll want to know if you have experience. Some like both, some are cool enough to just hire a guy off the street.

I think it would be easiest though if you got in on the ground floor. Honestly, yea, it was a lot of work, but I think it would be easier than paying all that money for brewing school, and then having to cold-call every brewery ever to find a job, all while paying back loans.

As for schools, some breweries (the one I work at included) will pay for some or all of schooling once you brew for them. Something to consider.

Another item about schools: where I work, we use the American Brewer's Guild program. A couple guys went to Siebel in Chicago and were very happy with it. One went to UC Davis, and was not impressed at all (though he was classmates with the beard guy in the Sam Adams commercials). Our lab guy studied at Weihenstephan. They have a brewing school attached to the brewery, and it is THE premier brewing school [Clarkson voice] in the world. So if you decide to go the Europe route, try for there. And a side note about the German schools...they're only about $1000 a semester. Germans go for half that. Ridiculous. Course you have to speak fluent German to be admitted...

And one final thought: no one ever got rich in the brewing industry whose last name wasn't Busch, Pabst, or Leinenkugel. Just saying haha.

I have been looking at ABG too. Only problem is that admission is full for the next two years already.

Talked to the guy I'd consider the top pro brewer in the region about schools. He recommended VLB to me and had this to say about Davis vs. VLB: that most of the people who graduate from Davis go on to work for Annheiser Busch testing samples in a lab; most of the ABG guys go on to brew beer.

I'm also considering Siebel, but it's easily the most expensive program I've looked at thusfar. I guess the Doeman's program I linked to is actually affiliated with Siebel (or vice-versa).

I'm not looking to get rich with this. I just figure it's a way to make a reasonable living doing something I love. I figure I can do about as well as if I were a full teacher and that I'll get a lot less back-talk from yeast.

If I'm going to be underpayed, I'd more happily spend my day lifting 50# bags of grain, have my arms scalded with steam, and generally be sticky with wort than put up with some of the B.S. I had to deal with teaching today.

I am thinking my next couple of batches will have bottles set aside to enter in the CA State Fair.

flountown wrote: Have you considered Nanobrewing? A storage locker, some fancier bigger SS pots and you can begin selling your own beer. Grab the book Brewing Up a Business by Sam Calgione and get creative. You can maintain your normal work, most likely make more money by maintaining your current job and get your own creations out there. I believe the CA laws are actually very favorable towards nanobrewing, and after about 4k in licensing fees/business bond and such you can be selling your beer.

I'll look into that. I'd heard government laws were really a pain where that was concerned, but maybe not. I've got three major beer spots that I could probably get to put my beers on tap, were I to sell some. When I first busted out my holiday ale, customers at one place told the owner he needed to put kegs of it on tap.