I read one report that indicated SOP for loss of propulsion is to drop both anchors, and that, if this was in fact done, it's possible the starboard anchor touched first, swinging the bow to starboard. No idea if this will prove out, but simply an additional factor that will be considered.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:Note the barriers constructed around the the power line poles. Bigger than the bridge supports. Someone thought to protect them.
Those were built in the last 3 years, they're also 400 feet tall to accommodate the larger boats.
02Pilot said:I read one report that indicated SOP for loss of propulsion is to drop both anchors, and that, if this was in fact done, it's possible the starboard anchor touched first, swinging the bow to starboard. No idea if this will prove out, but simply an additional factor that will be considered.
Both anchors were dropped according to the video linked a few pages back.
BoulderG said:Anyone think this will prompt a review of bridge, tunnel, and road maintenance and repair?
Seems like many states have 'imperfect' funding methods, whether it's privately owned toll roads or diverted or easily-cut funding, and much more.This was a sudden and catastrophic accident. Will it change things systemically?
There's almost zero percent chance of change. There will be meetings, there will be ideas, there may even be plans. But when it comes time for funding to implement them this will be forgotten and the cost will be unjustifiable. For all the reasons Secratariata points out and probably a few others our systems prevents us from really accomplishing much.
If you've never seen these ships up close, photos really don't show how massive they are. Picture a standard shipping container, if you've been near one, and how big one is. Now picture the back wall of the ship, that's 135 of them. Now picture 75 of those stacks. That's what this ship can hold.
GameboyRMH said:Fueled by Caffeine said:<dad hat on>. Couple years ago we had two young women go missing. Found out that they went into a retention pond in the winter. Couldn't get out and drowned. Bought these. In my car now. </dad hat off>
resqme. Designed by a fire fighter made in USA.
Not that falling off a bridge that big would allow us to survive. But you know.
They're also a good thing to keep on the keychain of a dual-use car because they can be handy for escaping a car with a 3pt belt and full windows that's upside-down and on fire.
As I learned during a conversation on this topic today, if you are driving a modern vehicle those are probably dang near worthless. Since sometime in the late 20teens cars have been coming with laminated side windows as well as windshields. Had to go confirm during the conversation and sure enough my 2017 ford and the wife's 2021 GM both have laminated side windows. Those breakers WILL NOT break laminated windows, only tempered. However as a small positive the rear passenger windows in both vehicles are still tempered not laminated.
Did anyone else watch the slow motion (heck maybe it was real time) port video and track the lights of the cars going across... Waiting for the collision to take the road away?
And.. dang. Charleston's cooper river bridge was really built 20 years ago.
In reply to JThw8 :
Yup, nothing the fire department had could break tesla windows to free the billionaire wife of a shipping tycoon trapped submerge in a pond a few weeks ago, even standing on roof hitting with sledgehammer, coincidence? I absolutely think so and this post is only of novelty value.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:Note the barriers constructed around the the power line poles. Bigger than the bridge supports. Someone thought to protect them.
I imagine that is there for visibility as much as protection. The bridge is a large substantial visual target, while the poles are slim and more likely to disappear against the background.
Many people seem to glossing over the fact that the bridge WAS protected by dolphins on both sides of the bridge on both sides of the main channel.
alfadriver said:In reply to secretariata (Forum Supporter) :
In commerce situations like this, do the shippers know the cost of problems like this? The lost commerce would go a long way paying for repairs- plus, they should also share in bridge construction since they have specific needs to meet? (Yes that is a question, even poorly worded)
Not 100% sure I understand your question, so if I don't give you the answer you're looking for we can try again.
I'd say that the shipping (ocean going vessels) industry has no idea of the costs related to construction and maintenance of automotive infrastructure. To the best of my knowledge there are no related fees charged to them unless the road to the port is a toll road and even then the trucking industry probably pays those fees and passes them on to the product owner in some manner. I assume they pay some sort of fees related to docking at the port and loading/unloading cargo, but I expect those fees go to funding repairs and improvements to the port facility and dredging channels to maintain or improve depth for the ships.
As far as economic impact to shipping firms and product owners, I'm certain that they are acutely aware of what it costs them per hour to not have port access and to reroute to another port if access is shut down long enough. Just thinking about the backlog that occurred in Long Beach & LA a few years ago.
Edit: Some of the largest ships have to wait for low tide in order to have enough vertical clearance to get beneath bridges to access a port and some ports are not accessible at all to the largest container ships. I know Charleston was that way prior to demolition of the older Grace and Pearman bridges over the Cooper River.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
10,000 TEU or twenty foot equivalent units is what the wiki page read. That is a lot of containers indeed. Those ones on the stern look like they could be 53 footers.
In reply to secretariata (Forum Supporter) :
Given the bridge requirements for shipping, my opinion is that they should share in the cost.
In reply to alfadriver :
I don't disagree, but that isn't the system that is currently in place.
Also, as cars & trucks get better fuel mileage the current US system of taxing the fuel is generating less funding per mile driven and it is very difficult to get increases in that tax rate or to index it to actual fuel price or inflation. Part of why we pay significantly less per gallon of gas and diesel than other parts of the world and have infrastructure that gets a D or D- grade from the American Society of Civil Engineers.
11GTCS said:In reply to Steve_Jones :
10,000 TEU or twenty foot equivalent units is what the wiki page read. That is a lot of containers indeed. Those ones on the stern look like they could be 53 footers.
Maersk doesn't use 53 Footers, they could be 40s, so picture 38 of them if they are ;). Standing near one at the dock is crazy, they're just huge
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I'm not surprised they don't use 53s, they way they load them I don't think a 53 would to be a legal weight to transport by truck.
I remember getting those after they were trucked to the break bulk terminal to unload. We used to get them full from front to back, floor to ceiling with Reebok sneakers. They stuffed them so full there wasn't any empty space.
In reply to secretariata (Forum Supporter) : Well said.
alfadriver said:In reply to secretariata (Forum Supporter) :
Given the bridge requirements for shipping, my opinion is that they should share in the cost.
The shipping needs a channel and a dock. It's the local municipality that needs a road across the channel. That particular road is irrelevant to the shipping.
Not sure if this has been covered:
- The bridge was apparently made aware the ship was out of control and stopped traffic over the bridge before the hit.
- Baltimore is a major roll on / roll off port and as such is a primary port for shipping cars and trucks. This might create some shortage / cost issues with new cars (mostly foreign I suspect).
In reply to aircooled :
The local news station was interviewing Ernie Boch tonight about the impact this will have on Subaru of New England and new vehicle supplies for the near future.
He said there will definitely be some impact, but too early to know how big or how long.
Duke said:alfadriver said:In reply to secretariata (Forum Supporter) :
Given the bridge requirements for shipping, my opinion is that they should share in the cost.
The shipping needs a channel and a dock. It's the local municipality that needs a road across the channel. That particular road is irrelevant to the shipping.
Until one of them runs into the bridge, blocking all shipping traffic. One kind of commerce can't block another. They share the passage.
In reply to alfadriver :
In Charleston the State Ports Authority did contribute significantly to building the Ravenel bridge which opened up larger shipping to their ports. Now they are proposing replacing a different bridge for more port space, and will likely contribute to that as well. The shippers pay fees to the SPA, so I guess in a way they do? It all comes back to the consumers and tax payers ultimately.
aircooled said:Not sure if this has been covered:
- The bridge was apparently made aware the ship was out of control and stopped traffic over the bridge before the hit.
- Baltimore is a major roll on / roll off port and as such is a primary port for shipping cars and trucks. This might create some shortage / cost issues with new cars (mostly foreign I suspect).
I heard on the radio that at least a couple manufacturers (BMW and I think VW) unload their cars at a dock that's on the 'safe' side of the bridge, so their deliveries won't be affected.
johndej said:In reply to JThw8 :
Yup, nothing the fire department had could break tesla windows to free the billionaire wife of a shipping tycoon trapped submerge in a pond a few weeks ago, even standing on roof hitting with sledgehammer, coincidence? I absolutely think so and this post is only of novelty value.
Some of them won't cut a seatbelt either. My mother got me one for Christmas years ago. At work a wheelchair strap got stuck so I grabbed it out of my car to try it out. The handle snapped and the blade cut my hand.
So a few things.
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