Frustrations with interviewing in this wild job market

In reply to OHSCrifle :

I've got way too much ear to get away with that! 🤣

In reply to wae :

Ageism is very real. I don't know if that is a difference maker or not. I'm similar age and if I cut my hair short the grey is much less obvious, especially in a zoom setting. 
You have to feel comfortable to let your best self shine in an interview, if the due job would negatively impact that I wouldn't do it. 

In reply to wae :

If you work in tech, hair-dying is extremely common for interviews. There are milder "touch of gray" type dyes that will reduce the gray while avoiding the Steven Seagal look. I considered it myself but I figure it's less visible on camera and I've had almost this much gray hair since I was a teenager anyway...

I'm 42 and can say that once the massive amount of stress that 2020 brought and gave me gray in my beard that it actually was a benefit in my field.

I guess I finally looked like I had been doing this for numerous decades?

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

It's pretty messed up to not hire someone solely because they seem desperate for work (!?) or drive an old hoopty or a "bad credit brand" (especially because credit's not a factor if you pay cash for one used, and most people hardly care about car brands any more than washing machine brands). My immediate supervisor at my last job, who got promoted to that position from the same role I was in, worked like an absolute fiend (as required to keep a job at that company) and he drove an >10yo rusty Dodge Journey.

As a frequent old hoopty driver who only once somewhat unwisely splurged on a <10yo car and may have given off a whiff of desperation, getting a welding cert and moving to Wisconsin could've been a disastrous waste of time, theoretically speaking.

I've hired great employees, and not great employees. The car they drive has absolutely nothing to do it. One of my best employees is terrible with money, but is phenomenal at everything I need from him for his job. Making any judgment because of the car they drive is extremely naive.  I drive a 16 year old beat up Mazda. I spend 90 minutes a day in trafffic, surrounded by morons. Driving a nice car is too stressful.   
 

I do care how old you are. If you're in your 50s with the exact same job title for 30 years, I know what I'm getting.  That's not the person I'm looking for. 

I should have clarified a little bit so folks didn't fly off the handle.

For a customer facing role where one has to deal with significant financial decisions and act as an advocate for both the company and the customer, the car a person drives absolutely is a window into their soul.  A sensible vehicle shows you can make sensible decisions and at least have enough horsepower and adulting that you can put yourself together.

Field service is kind of the same, we need people who can show up in front of a customer, by themselves, on their own without poking and prodding, and not look like a Dog's breakfast.  If your personal car that you paid your own money looks like a Mexican hardware store, how are you going to treat that $100k service truck and $50k worth of tools I give you? How clean would I think you are going to leave a jobsite when the window in your life says you are messy bessie?  How well will you conduct yourself in front of a customer when your boss isn't there?

Non customer facing, non supervisory roles in a shop environment, neither me or anyone else gives a crap.  You can look like an absolute turd, smell like a dumpster in July, rolling up in a Dodge Journey with limo tint, no plates, and a donut spare, but do that every day on time while you turn out quality product with minimal drama, and you are walking out the door with $120k a year.  

I think that in my line of work it's potato poe-tato on his new your truck is.

I've got jobs because I drive a 97 k1500 and " that means you are serious about work and won't over charge me" or " your truck looks like it's used as a work truck, I wanna hire people who work"

I've also had people tell me that " anyone that drives a car older than 3 years probably has a drug problem ( yes ....wtf???)" and " if I hire someone , I want them to drive a new truck so if I sue them, I can get money out of them" ( did not accept the job because of your starting point is suing someone, I don't want anything do with you)

Mostly I just drive what I like, and give no berkeleys what other people think of it.

Even for hardcore gearheads, it's hard for a car to be a window into a person's soul. It's an issue I've considered before, and without an unlimited budget or unlimited time to fabricate an entire car from scratch or ideally both, there will always be compromises. But to show what a terrible metric it is, I could give off two completely different impressions based on which car I happen to drive. An extremely worn-out old 20yo van that almost never gets washed with a bunch of reusable grocery bags haphazardly stuffed in the back and cardboard sheets strewn about and a fair amount of stuff that honestly is just junk inside...or a <10yo meticulously tidy car that's clean and well-maintained (and, with no outward appearance to indicate as such, represents some of the least sensible decisions I've ever made). Which car I might choose to drive would be largely chosen based on the weather, the amount of salt on the roads and what else I'm planning to do that day. Freezing weather, salty roads or plans to haul a big dirty item home later? I'm a messy bessie with no customer-facing skills. Clean roads on a warm day and no plans to move anything large or dirty? A sensible-decision-making adult who can maintain a work truck and knows how to conduct myself in front of customers. Or maybe one is in the shop and my soul transforms based on a broken sensor or a leaky hose. Or I borrow or rent a car and break the whole game.

Restricting those criteria to customer facing roles vs. non-customer facing roles is only better in that less people are vulnerable to being randomly eliminated based on wacky irrelevant factors they likely never guessed would be involved. I've heard stories of British companies ruling potential employees out because their choice of black vs. brown shoes displayed a lack of some esoteric classical fashion knowledge, and this is worse, because at least black and brown shoes can both be had for under $100, both work the same, and whichever color shoes a person chooses, at least there are no "bad credit brands."

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Black shoes with a black belt.

Brown shoes with a brown belt.

Watch strap matches shoes and belt.

Metal matches metal. Watch strap, belt buckle, cufflinks, tie bar.

Dimple in your tie, you choose the knot.

Straight line through shirt and pants zipper.

Pocket square matches tie.

You can cheat with one accessory item. (Frames on my glasses are red).

You can't see any of my tattoos when I'm properly dressed and I don't look like I fell face first into a tackle box.

This should be taught in school but isn't

If you make an effort, so will other people.

Example: The picture for my profile on here is my business card. If I'm meeting a potential automotive client, my watch matches my business card which also matches my wallet. It shows that you pay attention to detail.

I have a set of three belts with interchangeable buckles. The buckles are three different metals that work with whatever is on my suit jacket or anything else I'm wearing (watch strap or buttons on the cuff) The three belts are three different leathers that match whatever shoes I'm wearing. Cost me just over $100 for the set. It doesn't cost a lot to put yourself together really well.

"fell face first into a tackle box" Bwaahaha. That cracked me up.

ShawnG said:

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Black shoes with a black belt.

Brown shoes with a brown belt.

Watch strap matches shoes and belt.

Metal matches metal. Watch strap, belt buckle, cufflinks, tie bar.

Dimple in your tie, you choose the knot.

Straight line through shirt and pants zipper.

Pocket square matches tie.

You can cheat with one accessory item. (Frames on my glasses are red).

You can't see any of my tattoos when I'm properly dressed and I don't look like I fell face first into a tackle box.

This should be taught in school but isn't

If you make an effort, so will other people.

 

Example: The picture for my profile on here is my business card. If I'm meeting a potential automotive client, my watch matches my business card which also matches my wallet. It shows that you pay attention to detail.

I have a set of three belts with interchangeable buckles. The buckles are three different metals that work with whatever is on my suit jacket or anything else I'm wearing (watch strap or buttons on the cuff) The three belts are three different leathers that match whatever shoes I'm wearing. Cost me just over $100 for the set. It doesn't cost a lot to put yourself together really well.

Dude this is so true!  If you make the effort, so do other people.  

The whole thing about "I am taking my E36 M3-mobile to the job interview if I have to pick something up later" really got some lulz from me but its not surprising.  Guessing you would also be wearing your grub clothes because I have to help my neighbor move a washing machine on the way home and didn't comb your hair because you are an evening bather and couldnt be assed to change your routine to make a positive impresson.  

And yes if I didn't have a good car for a job interview I would borrow one, same as getting your dad's car to go on a hot date!  Put some effort into it!  Your interview should be your primary focus, its a big deal!

Its the same reason our sales dicks all get gray 4 door cab American made trucks in a mid trim level - looks professional without looking too spendy.  Nice middle-of-the road approach.  Sales guy who was selling CNCs showed up in a nice truck.   His kid?  A brand new Porsche.  Whelp - that guy charges too much, on to the next guy.   Same with contractors.  The bro with the brand new Superduty, Vanilla Ice hat, lifted up, stickered up, big wheels, loud exhaust - that guy sucks.  The guy with the 10 year old Silverado, no stickers, worn but not worn out - thats your guy.  

In reply to GameboyRMH :

He didn't say he noticed what you drove on a random day, it's how you show up to the interview. Showing up with a beat up car is like showing up without showering. YOU might be ok with it, but the guy paying you is not. As you've pointed out, there are plenty of others trying to get that job, so an employer can just go to the next guy. 

In reply to ShawnG :

I've heard the belt/shoes/watch matching thing and this wasn't it:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/02/city-of-london-dress-code-brown-shoes-finance

I wouldn't wear grub clothes to an interview if I was doing dirty work later because my self is going into the interview, my car is not, so I would prepare myself rather than the metaphorical horse I rode in on.

The differences between showing up in a beater car and showing up without showering are:

1. Showering isn't a major life investment that may be unreachable for a lot of people. Affording a <10yo car is no joke, especially if you have kids and/or have suffered any meaningful financial setbacks in life, which in the US could be something like having a health problem.

2. You may not expect anyone who will remain inside a building to even see much less care what car you showed up in. It's an interview, not the Amelia Island Concours.

3. When you shower nobody will be able to smell if you used a dollar-store soap brand and eliminate you because they think it says something about your credit rating.

Unless your car is part of the job and has to be used for it (which is usually a gig work thing), it should really be just as irrelevant as your house.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Well said. Put an effort into your appearance, and how you present yourself. As long as you have reliable transportation, the type/outward appearance of the vehicle doesn't matter. If you think it does, you're missing out on some quality employees because you've convinced yourself otherwise. C level, field service, or shop guy. There's zero relation between what they drive and the quality of their work. 
 

my office is always clean, and has a place for everything. My car has a week worth of clothes, dog hair, and whatever else I accumulate through the week. The last time someone merged into me, I sent them on their way because it was already dented.  It's nice not caring. 

I am NOT on board with using a person's car to judge their character and attention to detail as a benchmark for work. I drive a decent looking truck, but it's rarely washed. That's not because I don't care about the details. It's because I care so much about the details at work that I rarely put aside time to go to the car wash.  I'm too focused on my work. 
 

Having said that, there are some judgements I do make related to cars.  My step daughter's boyfriend drives a street racer Mustang. Slicks, big cowl intake, oversized after-market turbo (which recently replaced the nitrous).  I'm certain he gambles on street racing, and I am NOT cool with it.  I love the guy but frankly my impression of him through his car is that he has a juvenile irresponsible attitude about life and makes bad decisions about finances and the safety of the people around him. If I was hiring and he showed up in that car, I'd think twice. 
 

Yeah I know... I just played both sides of the table. 

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to GameboyRMH :

He didn't say he noticed what you drove on a random day, it's how you show up to the interview. Showing up with a beat up car is like showing up without showering. YOU might be ok with it, but the guy paying you is not. As you've pointed out, there are plenty of others trying to get that job, so an employer can just go to the next guy. 

Had a guy show up for a job interview in a car with the BHPH lot price scrawled across the windshield.  That must have been a pretty long test drive.

The "shoes matching belt" thing...

I don't know if that has meaning in an office environment, but it most definitely does not work when interviewing for a trades supervisory position. 
 

When I interview, I wear clean jeans, a button down collared shirt, and work boots. I want my potential employer to be able to envision me confidently in the role they are hiring for.  If they decide to give me a tour of the shop or a job site, I don't want to look like an insurance salesman. I want to look like I belong. Plus, my work boots actually increase my set-confidence a little bit. I stand slightly taller in them, and my stride is slightly bigger.

I spent over 30 years in a hiring position. I never once looked at what the applicant drove. 

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I have two tow rigs.

One is a 2019 Silverado High Country which gets used to haul client vehicles.

One is a 1999 K2500 Suburban which gets used to go buy parts vehicles.

Perception matters.

ShawnG said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

I have two tow rigs.

One is a 2019 Silverado High Country which gets used to haul client vehicles.

One is a 1999 K2500 Suburban which gets used to go buy parts vehicles.

Perception matters.

100% - show up in a brand new truck nicer than mine and ask for a deal - well bro you can frig right off, I know you can afford it (or maybe not, but I know you like spending money)

Show up looking like you are putting your best foot forward but not raking it in - yeah we can work something out.

I do the same thing when I am picking up anything used off Marketplace, unfortunately the crappiest vehicle in the fleet is my 2021 F150 these days, but I am not taking my wife's new Wrangler or my big dumb van.  Back when I had my Superdutys and my Corvette I would never take the Corvette to go buy something even if it was a little trinket and it was a gorgeous day.  

Just like when you roll up to a swap meet with a $20k 4" diameter rubber band roll looking to make some deals.  You don't pull your roll out when you are chiseling the dude on something, you pull your wallet out with a few sad looking 20s and dress like that's all you got.  Hell, I will give a few $k to one of my buddies so I can "borrow" money from them if I am really going all in on the chiseling.   Gotta make the seller think you are a good dude who just doesn't have much cash.  

Just like SVRex being unimpressed with the guy who is dating his daughter because of the car he drives, perceptions 100% do matter, first impresisons are everything, and having a clean and presentable vehicle is definitely part of that first impression.  

Perceptions do matter.  Just try and put your best foot forward.  I don't think most employers/hiring managers give a E36 M3 what you drive if its isn't on the extreme end of the specturum.  Show up in a 30 year old hooptie belching smoke, running on 3 cylinders, with most of the body rotted away - sure it will raise some questions, even subconsciously.  Same with someone showing up to an entry level job interview driving a GT3RS or something similarly outrageous.  If you are judging applicants because they happen to own a Dodge or a Nissan, you are insane.

From a legality standpoint, dismissing an applicant because of the car they drive can easily be considered illegal and discriminatory.  EDIT:  This is incorrect, see Steve's comment next page.

Just present yourself the best you can.  If for some reason your only car is an absolutely irredeemable pile of E36 M3, take a Lyft, rent a car for the day, borrow one, etc.

In reply to TravisTheHuman :

Please show me where the vehicle you drive is a protected class. I've read some dumb E36 M3 here, but this is in the top 5.