Get off my lawn

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/12/29/2010-12-29_shock_after_charles_celements_gets_four_years_probation_for_killing_neighbor_who.html

A Chicago-area man who shot and killed a neighbor whose dog urinated on his lawn, was sentenced to just four years of probation on Wednesday, shocking the victim's family.

Will County Judge Daniel Rozak rejected prison time for Charles Clements, 69, of University Park, noting the Marine vet had no prior criminal history.

Clements faced up to 20 years behind bars after being convicted of the second-degree murder in May of Joshua Funches, 23.

"This is certainly not justice," Gail Williams, the slain man's aunt, told the Chicago Tribune.

Prosecutors argued that Clements killed Funches during a dispute that started when the younger man's fox terrier urinated on Clements' yard.

Testimony at the trial showed that after Funches cursed at him, Clements pulled out a .45-caliber handgun and then placed it back in his pocket.

According to the filing, Funches then yelled, "Old man if you pull a gun on me you better plan on using it," then punched Clements in the face.

Clements said he blindly fired his gun as he fell backward. He apologized for his actions during the sentencing hearing.

Jurors convicted Clements of second-degree murder in October. They decided that Clements believed he was acting in self-defense -- a view they did not agree with.

Judge Rozak said the case wasn't just about a dog urinating on a lawn but about a man reacting to "being yelled at, pushed and punched in the face by a 23-year-old man."

Clements' attorney, Daniel Collins, said his client and his family are "very satisfied" with the sentence.

Morel of the story, don't punch an old man with a gun in the face. Although that shouldn't really be a lesson that needs to be taught, as it should be common sense.

WTF was he doing with it in his pocket anyway?

Gran Torino?

Makes me wonder what else has happened in the past between these two?

Lesley wrote: WTF was he doing with it in his pocket anyway?

69 year old marine. That makes him active ~45-50 years ago, and serving during the early 1960s. I'd guess that's why he packs a gun.

AquaHusky wrote: Makes me wonder what else has happened in the past between these two?

And between the dead guy and everyone else in the area. A man that punches a guy with a gun is not making good choices.

All figured, seems reasonable sentencing. I feel sorry for the poor kid and his family.

Shouldn't have brought the gun. Shouldn't have pulled it out and put it back away again.

But, yelling at someone and essentially telling them to shoot you while you assault them is about as stupid as it gets.

16vCorey wrote: Morel of the story, don't punch an old man with a gun in the face. Although that shouldn't really be a lesson that needs to be taught, as it should be common sense.

+1

Lesley wrote: WTF was he doing with it in his pocket anyway?

Whatever the berkeley he wanted to? Lesson to smart-mouthed punks: Think twice before you talk E36 M3. Lesson to 'dog people:' Build a berkeleying fence and clean up your own mess.

neon4891 wrote: Gran Torino?

indeed...old dude sounds like a BAMF!

= DO NOT BERK WITH

/thread

The headline is categorically wrong, but it seems to serve an agenda.

Mr. Clements defended himself agains a violent physical assault. If the perp had backed-off and walked away this would be a non-event. Instead, we get another DRT story and one less fine, upstanding young man.

A conviction and parole now means the real victim has lost all his rights towards firearm ownership and a way to protect himself. I think Mr. Clements' received way more "justice" than he deserved; the charges should have been dropped.

So the guy sees the gun and punches him out anyway? DARWIN!! Sure wish he hadn't contaminated the gene pool with kids.

Lesley wrote: WTF was he doing with it in his pocket anyway?

If you ever live in Chicago you will understand.

I'm 65YO. I'm not the man I was 20 years ago. Wish I was, but.... I also live in a somewhat shaky area. Lots of nice folks, too many not nice folks. Come on my property with bad intent, I will introduce you to my little friend Mac. He's a funny looking dude, only has one nostril, and it's .357 inches in diameter. When he sneezes, he will get your attention, and I will not have any compunction about making him sneeze. Makarov 9mm. Castle Doctrine rules!

yeah.......... I'm guessing civil suit and a BIG settlement.

That old guy will be poorer than 4 church mice soon enough..

fun fun.

poopshovel wrote:

Lesley wrote: WTF was he doing with it in his pocket anyway?

Whatever the berkeley he wanted to? Lesson to smart-mouthed punks: Think twice before you talk E36 M3. Lesson to 'dog people:' Build a berkeleying fence and clean up your own mess.

Exercising his Second Amendment Rights. Around here we call it obeying the law. http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

Guns aren't common around here, so it's just something I'll never get used to reading about. The punk deserved a faceful of mace or something, it's just shocking to me that an incident like this occurred over dog poop.

I am not a gun nut (even though I do own one) but I do think that 23 year old did need to be removed from the gene pool.

He KNEW the old man had a gun.. why would still walk up and punch him?

In fairness, I wouldnt expect to get shot, but in fairness, I wouldnt swing on an old guy, or a neighbor, regardless of his armament status.

Still, Im probably in the minority here. My POV is probably slightly different than most. Having had a weapon pointed at my face, by a burglar, from arms length, and then being essentially punched in the face, repeatedly, with said 9mm, and being asked each time if Im ready to die, the next person who aims at me better use that weapon, because if not, I will make them wish they had.

...never again

A few rules I live by:

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

DO NOT step on superman's cap.

Hot water on the left cold water on the right and E36 M3 runs down hill

The bigger thing ALWAYS has the right of way (Learned this rule in Panama )

And the guy with the gun is ALWAYS right (learned this one in D.C )

Overall the "kid" was a dumb ass and the world will be better off with out him.

Lesley wrote: Guns aren't common around here, so it's just something I'll never get used to reading about. The punk deserved a faceful of mace or something, it's just shocking to me that an incident like this occurred over dog poop.

welcome to america.

On a serious note.. Every time I think I want to get back into guns as a hobby, I read a story like this or talk to one of them super gun nutters.. Especially when people respond to a shooting by saying.. "He was just exercising his rights"...

There is a reason why I've never joined the NRA...

Lesley wrote: Guns aren't common around here, so it's just something I'll never get used to reading about.

Guns are very common around here. We just don't carry them in our pockets, or commit crimes with them.

Ignorant wrote:

Lesley wrote: Guns aren't common around here, so it's just something I'll never get used to reading about. The punk deserved a faceful of mace or something, it's just shocking to me that an incident like this occurred over dog poop.

There is a reason why I've never joined the NRA...

Actually with the way the NRA has been acting these past few years you could feel guilt-free in sending a few checks their way. They know how their bread gets buttered: perpetuating the cycle.

The real question is how the hell did he fit a .45 in his pocket?

FauxNews (that's for iggy! ) covered this today and had a short blurb from the guy himself. Paraphrasing: the argument started on the guy's lawn, it moved down the street from the guy's house, he showed the guy the gun, the guy punched him in the face, his first thought was 'this guy is going to grab my gun and shoot me with it' and the rest was sort of automatic.

I think this wasn't the first run in, there had probably been a lot of other stuff before that.

Then there are the plain old nutters; I once had a guy threaten to kick my ass because he had gotten HIS car stuck in the driveway of MY parent's beach house and I told him he needed to move it and fill the holes he made trying to spin his way out. But in that instance when the cussing and threats started I just called the Garden City, SC PD and let THEM sort it out. Sure was fun watching from the porch as I sipped my coffee.