In reply to Toebra :
I guess that depends on what the definition is of an "adverse" reaction.
I don't know, but my speculation is it's more than having a cold for a few days.
In reply to Toebra :
I guess that depends on what the definition is of an "adverse" reaction.
I don't know, but my speculation is it's more than having a cold for a few days.
mtn said:
In any case, between 1980 and 1995, approximately 383.6 million flu shots were administered. For flu shots administered prior to 1995, there have been 384 total events reported that had an onset of over 120 days (or unknown time). 0.0001%. Those 384 events include everything from agitation to abnormal dreams, weight loss to gingivitis. . The most common complaints were injection site hypersensitivity, injection site pain, injection site edema, fever, pain, and itching.
I apologize, I neglected to copy the entire post to which I was responding, the above delineates the adverse events to which I referred. Given a choice, I would far prefer any of these to the level of illness I suffered. I was sick as a dog for 3 days, fever and vomiting, following first flu shot. Maybe the vaccine for typhoid, pneumonia or plague, or the combination contributed to it. Pretty much everybody was sick at least a day. It was a week the second time I got a flu shot, did not get any others that time around. I am not about to find out if the third time is a charm. I have been sick maybe a half dozen times in the last 40 years. 2 from the flu shot, the others from food poisoning.
I know other people that get seriously ill when they get the flu shot. It is definitely not for everyone.
Appleseed said:I think I'm more impressed that this is a totally passionate discussion that's hasn't devolved (yet) into posturing and name calling. Civility.
Nice job, everyone.
Shut up, dingus
Just kidding.
Addressing the experiences of people that were vaccinated in the military and saw a higher percentage of adverse reactions.
I would suspect that they were vaccinated for more than one disease. At least in veterinary medicine, we have clear evidence that giving more than one vaccine at a time greatly increases the potential of an adverse reaction.
When I hear people talk about their experiences when getting vaccines in the military, it's usually going to be getting injected by a whole line of technicians.
If someone gets an influenza vaccine, which is given at the same time as any other vaccine, then their experience is not relevant to this discussion.
mtn said:Ok, I'm back for one comment:
I see a LOT of ex-military who say it made them sick, and made everyone sick. How long ago? Looks like Toebra was almost 30 years ago.
Almost everyone I know gets the flu shot. Almost no one I know gets any adverse reactions from it. I'm thinking that the flu shots that are around today aren't the same as what was available 30 years ago.
EDIT: Toebra, see the next part of my comment that you didn't include:
If we include ALL adverse effects (onset at any time), we get 5,822. 0.0015%.
So the flu shot is a different formula than 30 years ago?
No. The basic substrate is the same, and any revisions would have to be federally approved.
The only difference is what strains of influenza they include for inoculation.
It's like my car. This year it may have a 350 in it, next year it might have a 454, but the car is the same and it has been federally approved for use on the road.
Listen, we can argue conspiracy theories all day. Facts: The influenza vaccine has been demonstrated to be safe since its inception and approval. Any evidence to the contrary is anecdotal at best. It has been studied both clinically and applicationally for many decades. It has undergone the same scrutiny as any other medicine, maybe more. If you wish to continue being afraid of it, don't get it, but your argument so far has not had any factual basis.
I'm not saying you're wrong... maybe 5 years from now they'll discover it is deadly poison and killing us all and you can say "I told you so," but with the current data (all of which is available to the public from CDC, FDA, etc) has suggested it is 100% safe. Arguing that it isn't is simply conspiracy when the data suggests the opposite.
Took me 3 seconds to find this page with links to about 15 independent and government studies FROM 2018, ALONE that concluded the vaccine was safe.
Then another 10 seconds to find this page with citations for 20 different studies, all from independent medical journals across a broad spectrum of medical disciplines from oncology to obstetrics and about 6 different countries.
You keep saying "no one has shown me a single study..." and I figured they weren't coming up in your own google searches, so I googled it for you. From the few pages I found at the top of the search, it looks like in the last three years there have been about 50 independent studies on the safety and efficacy of the flu vaccine. All of them concluded it was safe.
In reply to Curtis :
Sometimes when presented with facts, some people will dig in further. You can’t convince some people.
Which is why sone of my friends call me “on the fence Joel” because I just won’t argue about stuff that people are passionate about, and I know that no matter what I say, and what facts I present, they won’t be swayed. It’s one thing I pride myself on, I will change as much as I can when presented with facts contrary t what I believe.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds/amp
joey48442 said:In reply to Curtis :
Sometimes when presented with facts, some people will dig in further. You can’t convince some people.
Which is why sone of my friends call me “on the fence Joel” because I just won’t argue about stuff that people are passionate about, and I know that no matter what I say, and what facts I present, they won’t be swayed. It’s one thing I pride myself on, I will change as much as I can when presented with facts contrary t what I believe.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds/amp
Curtis, I agree. You've been rational, thorough, and calm throughout this discussion.
My advise: Stop making sense; you'll only get frustrated. BTW, isn't there an expression about "feeding the troll?"
Now you're name calling, and it's "advice"
Justjim75 said:Now you're name calling, and it's "advice"
Correct on the grammar, correct on the name calling. Now it's time to lock the thread. I'm done, either way.
The vast majority of people I know that refuse to get the flu vaccine are physicians
Toebra said:The vast majority of people I know that refuse to get the flu vaccine are physicians
You're a physician yourself, correct? What do the vast majority of MD's you know say about it (note the question is "What do most of the MD's you know say about the flu shot," not "what do the vast majority of people you know who refuse to get the flu shot who are physicians say"?
My anecdotal evidence has been this:
Our daughter's infectious disease doctor, her cardiologist (pediatric intensivist), and one of her neonatologists (only asked one) all said unequivocally to get it ASAP each year.
My GP said get it each year
My wife's GP said get it each year
My wife's OBGYN (2 of them, 2 different practices) said get it each year
My wife's psychiatrist said "well, I get it myself because my GP said to get it"
Toebra (you are an MD, right? I'm not confusing you with someone else?) said, basically, "meh" and "it makes me rand everyone I know who got it in the Military really sick"
But those are the only MD's I've ever asked about it.
joey48442 said:In reply to Curtis :
Sometimes when presented with facts, some people will dig in further. You can’t convince some people.
No kidding. Hence this 6-page E36 M3show.
Some of 'yall need a hobby. May I suggest cars? 
Cars? That would be an interesting choice for a car forum.
Floating Doc said:joey48442 said:In reply to Curtis :
Sometimes when presented with facts, some people will dig in further. You can’t convince some people.
Which is why sone of my friends call me “on the fence Joel” because I just won’t argue about stuff that people are passionate about, and I know that no matter what I say, and what facts I present, they won’t be swayed. It’s one thing I pride myself on, I will change as much as I can when presented with facts contrary t what I believe.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds/amp
Curtis, I agree. You've been rational, thorough, and calm throughout this discussion.
My advise: Stop making sense; you'll only get frustrated. BTW, isn't there an expression about "feeding the troll?"
Heheheh. I'm too old to be uptight. :)
Hey, did you people know that DIESEL trucks transport flu vaccines?! #conspiracy
Man. Somebody snowflaked out over being called a troll on the internet. That's the first time I've ever seen that.
This is better than joke of the day BWaHhahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!......oh wait i think i feel a twinge .......NOT!!!
I'm beginning to wish that this thread would catch an infectious disease and die.
Those crazy anti-vaxxers are making a big fuss out in Oklahoma. Going on about people getting sick. Pshaw!
Get your flu shots, people! Perfectly safe.
1988RedT2 said:Those crazy anti-vaxxers are making a big fuss out in Oklahoma. Going on about people getting sick. Pshaw!
Get your flu shots, people! Perfectly safe.
Yes, they are perfectly safe.
This is like putting racing slicks on your car, calling them snow tires, then complaining that snow tires don't work.
Got my flu shot a couple weeks ago. Didn't even feel the actual injection.
The worst part was pulling the bandaid off later. Being hairy sucks.
Duke said:Got my flu shot a couple weeks ago. Didn't even feel the actual injection.
The worst part was pulling the bandaid off later. Being hairy sucks.
I have heard that being hairy is why the injections don't hurt. Nerves are located at hair follicles. If they can see them, they can miss them and if they can miss them you won't feel it. The last one I got was painless as well.
mtn said:1988RedT2 said:Those crazy anti-vaxxers are making a big fuss out in Oklahoma. Going on about people getting sick. Pshaw!
Get your flu shots, people! Perfectly safe.
Yes, they are perfectly safe.
This is like putting racing slicks on your car, calling them snow tires, then complaining that snow tires don't work.
Actually, I'm going to change my analogy. Saying that flu shots (or vaccines in general) aren't safe because of this incident is like saying that gasoline is not safe because the gas station had the gas line hooked up to the diesel tank. The gasoline is still fine, you just didn't get it.
In any case, 1988RedT2's trolling is annoying.
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