Gibson guys - "Old SG" Too good to be true?

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msg/2298693502.html

Thoughts? The "couldn't find serial" number thing seemed a little weird to me. Isn't it always stamped on the headstock?

It should be somewhere on the headstock, but a quick search of the th3 Interwebz suggests that at some point Gibson used decals.

The guitar looks a little odd to me - I'm by no means a Gibson scholar but I can't find a picture of an SG special (which is what it would be with the P90s) and a pickguard under the volume controls/switches. I've found pictures of a humbucker-equipped one in that configuration.

All in all it seems a little fishy to me - either it's been messed about with, or it's a copy that's "acquired" a Gibson sticker. Some of the Japanese copies of the late 70s/early 80s are better than the originals so it might not be a bad buy, but not as a vintage Gibson with a price tag to match.

I'm not a Gibson guy, but the only ones I've seen with the knob cavity/cover set up were the SG Deluxes from the '70, and I thought they all had Bigsbys. The Gibson logo on the headstock looks like an inlay, and the tuners look right for an SG of that era. Maybe it's a hodge podge of actual SG parts? I dunno.

Actually, looking at the craigslist add again, it looks like there are four holes that were filled where the Bigsby used to be. Maybe it is real!

I'm not an expert, but I am pretty familiar with Gibsons - I currently own 4 and have had many more.

That looks like no SG I've ever seen. Particularily with regards to the controls mounting plate and the lack of contouring on the cut-aways. That said, I have some books I'll tryto remember to check.

Google image search for "Gibson SG Deluxe" and you'll find plenty with the knob mount plate. The edges so look awful sharp in the pics though.

While we're on the subject of old Gibsons, I have a '73-'74 L6-S that I'm interested in selling, but have no idea of the value.

It is in pretty good shape, though one of the original pickups has been replaced. The OEM pickups are available so it could be swapped back in. Other than that, the wiring has not been mucked with. Many of these I've seen have had the 6-position rotating pickup switch replaced by a typical 3-pole toggle. The chrome is worn off the tailpiece. It's got the original Gibson hard case, which has, shall we call it, "patina".

I've seen some nutso prices on my brief 'net search. I've owned it for about 25 years, but I really don't play anymore and I would like to convert it into funds toward new wheels and r-comps for the Miata. Any thoughts on how to value it?

PS - sorry to threadjack.

There's some sort of 'blue book' type guitar collectors valuation guide out there. Probably a good starting point.

16vCorey wrote: Google image search for "Gibson SG Deluxe" and you'll find plenty with the knob mount plate. The edges so look awful sharp in the pics though.

Headstock is different. Fretboard inlays are different. Aforementioned control plate is different. Pick-ups are wrong. It could be the angle of the pictures, but there's something about the body that doesn't look right to me.

I'm not a Gibson expert, but I play one on TV. Seriously, my dad and brother are Gibson experts, so I've seen quite a bit... This one looks to be a real Gibson to me, but it looks like it is about 3 or 4 different guitars put together. I'd go and play it and see if it sounds like its worth it--besides that, you can't tell very much from these pictures.

mtn wrote: I'm not a Gibson expert, but I play one on TV. Seriously, my dad and brother are Gibson experts, so I've seen quite a bit... This one looks to be a real Gibson to me, but it looks like it is about 3 or 4 different guitars put together. I'd go and play it and see if it sounds like its worth it--besides that, you can't tell very much from these pictures.

That's exactly what I thought. It seemed like several SGs put together to make one. None of it seems right together, but they all seem like SG pieces.

I mean, for $600, it's an interesting old Gibson.

FWIW, my '74 SG has a serial number right on the back of the headstock. That's definitely odd.

My best guess is that it's an early-70's SG II with a melody maker dial panel. That still doesn't explain the lack of a serial number, though.

gamby wrote: I mean, for $600, it's an interesting old Gibson.

I agree with this. I'd seriously consider going to play it to feel how it plays and how it sounds. My first question when my dad is considering a guitar is "what would Doc Watson say about it?" Which means: I don't give a E36 M3 how it looks, how does it sound, how does it play, and will it not fall apart on me? (Doc Watson is blind for those who don't know who he is)

That is not to say that I won't pay more for a good looking guitar, but it is absolutely not the first consideration I have.

16vCorey wrote: Actually, looking at the craigslist add again, it looks like there are four holes that were filled where the Bigsby used to be. Maybe it is real!

Damn. Good eye, Corey. Yeah, the only early 70's ones with that control plate and the P90's that I'd seen had a bigsby, as well as the smaller, LP-shaped pickguard...Like so (pickgaurd removed:)

http://www.premierguitar.com/gear/Guitars/Electric_Solid_Body/3043146/SG_Pro.aspx

Here's one with the pickgaurd and a bigsby:

Wow--that looks like the one. While the Bigsby can't stay in tune worth a damn, it sure would have driven the value of the guitar up.

I'd jump on it if I were looking for an SG. $600 is short money for something vintage Gibson. Who cares if it's not original?

I can tell you that my '74 sounds beautiful, but it's a fairly standard Standard.

gamby wrote: While the Bigsby can't stay in tune worth a damn,

I call BS. Bigsbys stay in tune just fine. My 2 b6 equipped guitars are rock solid. Make sure the needle bearings are in good shape and (most importantly) match the spring to your string gauge and you are good to go.

Remember these things were designed in a time of heavy gauge flatwounds and subtle mellow tremelo use. They excel at that, but in the 70's when rock really hit and most of the old cheap used guitars were bigsby equipped kids installed super light round wound strings which are not as smooth as flat wounds so they bind in the bridge and nut and started jerking on the arm in ways the poor tremelo was never intended.

Don't treat them like a floyd rose and they will do what they are designed to do pretty much forever

gamby wrote: Wow--that looks like the one. While the Bigsby can't stay in tune worth a damn, it sure would have driven the value of the guitar up. I'd jump on it if I were looking for an SG. $600 is short money for something vintage Gibson. Who cares if it's not original? I can tell you that my '74 sounds beautiful, but it's a fairly standard Standard.

Neil Young does a great deal overwrought Bigsby manipulation and likes the fact that he is never in tune at the end of a song. FWIW....