God I love this story:

Unfortunately cash crops cannot feed a population, and countries that are dependent on such limited commodities are much more susceptible to a boom and bust cycle due to weather and trends. While green coffee beans are pretty lucrative at about $4 per pound fair trade, this barely compares to the going rate of technology exports.

I couldn't resist doing the math. $6 Billion in aid since 1990. 20 years. 11 million people.That means that every one of those Haitians has obviously been living high on the hog with the $27.25 they get each year, assuming the entire amount actually filtered down to the poor wretch living under a sheet in a park. Better not catch them vacationing in Jamaica .

Just me being cynical about people complaining about a number that really isn't nearly as big as it sounds. This isn't aimed at anybody on this forum. Mindless ranting.

MitchellC commented on the scale of the losses. Here's what I just heard on TV and I find it an astounding number; someone has estimated that there are as many as 1,000,000 orphans in Haiti. Even if that's accurate, it can't all be a result of the earthquake. There must have been a very high number prior. That's one person in every nine. I don't pretend to know what the right answer is for getting them back on their feet, but something has to be done.

Another issue I have is this:

Haiti wasn't devastated, Port Au Prince was devastated.

Google Port Au Prince and look at the city around Fort National from the aerial view and you will see why there are so many dead. It is engineered like Mexico City.

Actually the Google Map has been updated to show all of the damage as well.

Take a look!

My question is about moving the people away from the trouble spots. Using that logic, we have to evacuate most of California due to earthquakes, all of southern Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Florida due to hurricanes. We can't move them to the Southern Midwest due to the tornadoes, and the Northeast is pretty full and still gets the occasional hurricane, flood, or freeze. Las Vegas seems nice, and the is plenty more room out in the desert. Oh wait, that didn't work in Somalia. The whole lack of water thing. Perhaps the mid-Midwest? Wait, severe flooding. Everyone will drown. The Northern Midwest is pretty open and uninhabited, but it is freezing cold and there are a lot of separatists up there. Darn, there is no safe place to live here in the US!

Move them all back to Mexico?

(Ducks for cover laughing)

Rebuild them? No, not with my money. But hundreds of thousands of people, dead and rotting in the sun? Yeah, I could donate some money to that cause. I think there is a difference.

Joey

John Brown wrote: Another issue I have is this: Haiti wasn't devastated, Port Au Prince was devastated.

Right, and 9/11 only affected New York City, and the Dust Bowl crisis only affected the American west.

Dust Bowl affected the Midwest.

I'm pretty sure I am the only person on this board who has been inside of Haiti within the last week. I also lived on the border of Haiti for 2 years in the '90's.

Many of you are, frankly, clueless.

Haiti has always been a confusing place. That has not changed, and will not change any time soon.

And yes, the government has been extremely corrupt. That will also probably not change.

But is that any reason to blame the 9 million innocent victims?

I don't really care who is corrupt and who is not. All I know is that I was personally responsible for saving likely more than a thousand lives this week.

While I was doing this, some of you did nothing more than complain and bitch about politics in a country you know nothing about. Pardon me if I have absolutely no patience for your piss-poor attitude.

Rant over.

John Brown wrote: Haiti wasn't devastated, Port Au Prince was devastated.

Absolutely positively false.

The entire country has been devastated.

I'll happily take Mr. Shirley to where I've been this week and see what he thinks.

First I'll bet he'd have absolutely no survival skills whatsoever. While he accuses the Haitians of failing to provide for themselves, I'm pretty sure we'd find him rocking back and forth under a banana palm completely overwhelmed and incapable of finding himself a single decent meal or clean water. In spite of his gross unwillingness to assist, the Haitians would provide FOR him. They'd make sure he ate more than them, had cleaner water than they drink, and was safe, and got back home, even if he wouldn't return the same courtesy.

Eventually (when he got back), I'm pretty sure he'd recant his entire story.

Whiners don't impress me.

SVreX wrote: I'll happily take Mr. Shirley to where I've been this week and see what he thinks. First I'll bet he'd have absolutely no survival skills whatsoever. While he accuses the Haitians of failing to provide for themselves, I'm pretty sure we'd find him rocking back and forth under a banana palm completely overwhelmed and incapable of finding himself a single decent meal or clean water. In spite of his gross unwillingness to assist, the Haitians would provide FOR him. They'd make sure he ate more than them, had cleaner water than they drink, and was safe, and got back home, even if he wouldn't return the same courtesy. Eventually (when he got back), I'm pretty sure he'd recant his entire story. Whiners don't impress me.

It's much easier to blame and criticize than To Do.

I have a lot of respect for people, like yourself, who go to help.

I didn't do much. Everyone can do something. When lots of people do a little it makes a big difference.

Unfortunately, some people seem to love to do stuff that is counterproductive.

I've been- not this last week, but I've been (1997). It was a total e36M3hole. I have been to many poor countries, largely central america, but largely they are now (relatively- two qualifiers in one sentence- $$!) stable. 1776 happened because some educated radicals had a better idea and based if off universally and non-corrupt principles (read the Magna Carta). Unfortunately Haiti is one of those countries that has been sold that line many times in the last 20 years. Unfortunately, they aren't rebelling against taxation, they just need clean water. Read that: CLEAN BERKLEYING WATER! If you have ever seen anyone e36M3'ing in their own water supply (quite literally), you have begun to scratch the surface of what Haiti has to deal with.

So count me among the Shirley detractors. Americans never had to complain about our water supply. Our education system is flawed but serviceable. Our leaders are idiots, but not corrupt in the caribbean/central america sense. Somehow we have managed as a country to bumble through history without any major incident. Think Katrina was bad? Google "new madrid fault zone" and tell me that people should move away from natural hazards.

Now. I don't believe in "giving a man a fish", but giving a bit of your own has always given more satisfaction and joy to the giver than the receptor. The rebuild should be a "teaching a man to fish" exercise. Give to an organization that teaches a man to fish- rebuilds houses to CA code, make jobs, build an infrastructure worth protecting.

If we feal like throwing out some stupidly simple solutions, let the D.R. anex them.

Tifosi2k2 wrote: I mean it, seriously, where is the UN? Drafting a strongly worded letter rebuking the fault line for causing all of this pain and suffering?

And that, sir, is why WE have to do something. For as much E36 M3 as we get as a nation for doing the wrong thing, at least we do SOMETHING.

I'm pretty sure the UN is busy blaming the Isreali's and their evil earthquake machine.

From what i heard most of the people the U.N. had on the ground when the earthquake happened were killed by the earthquake.

SVreX, no one is doubting the good youve done. Please dont confuse the issue. People need help immediatley, that is a desperate cause, and thankfully there are poeple like you who are in a position to help, and are. I dontated some cash to the red cross. Thats the most I am capable of financially or otherwise. I can hope it feeds a young child or treats a wound or provides a drink to someone thirsty.

However, excuse me for not poo-poo-ing the butts of those people who cant afford a decent home (it sounds like almost no one there can) but still decided having 10 kids was acceptable behavior. Thats irresponsibility in its entirety. Poor or rich, adults have choices to make and must live with those decisions.

Again, you don't understand. How many mother's of 10 do you know, either here or in Haiti?

To a US "liberated" "free-thinking" "capitalist" who values a woman's "right to choose" and believes the planet is overstressed with too many people, perhaps your population reduction policy would work.

I value life, and consider their lives irreplaceable. I believe more people also bring more creative abilities to solve problems. To a sustenance farmer or fisherman, extra hands mean more wealth, not less.

For decades I have worked in countries where people had but 1 question for me, "Why do Americans kill their babies?".

Don't get me wrong- I'm no saint, and have made some terrible mistakes in my life regarding this. Probably much worse than most people on this board.

But my value and my worth has a great deal more tied up in my family and how I relate to the people around me then it does to how much money I have in the bank or how big my house is.

I wish I had 10 kids. There is no greater way to positively influence the world than to raise kids right.

Haiti's problem is mostly about decades of political corruption, theivery in high places, and imperialist attitudes from US development workers who wanted to fix Haiti's problems THEIR way (like birth control), and never stopped to ask what Haitians really desire, not bad contraceptive choices on the part of it's citizenry.

Im not going to argue what you are doing, it is truly gods work...that which you do to the least of my brethren, you do to me...

I just deleted a much longer retort, however, I dont want to belittle your work. Youre doing a good thing, and theres not a lot of that going around these days, so I will just leave it alone. Perhaps we disagree on the details, but like Where the FMI, and the group that got bryce to the challenge, allow me to simply applaud your work, and stand aside.

Just remember, once upon a time, we werent liberated free thinkers either...

IIRC that was about the time when we abused and destroyed the Native American peoples, right?

I agree with your sentiment that they should make good decisions and take charge of their destiny. I would, however, stop short of suggesting they earned their lot in life because they failed to use contraception.

SVreX wrote: IIRC that was about the time when we abused and destroyed the Native American peoples, right?

no, we did that much after we were liberated free thinkers