Going Nuclear Option on Neighbors

The choice was: 

Pay $1750 a month for a two bedroom apartment on a second floor of a overcrowding apartment complex filled with college students while my wife was pregnant or...

Buy a house where my mortgage payment is $1450 and hope that my neighbors give a E36 M3. 

Sorry for expecting people to give a E36 M3. 

It should be mentioned that while junky neighbor guys piss me off, I don't think they are badly impacting my home value. My realtor estimates my house has gained 10% in value in just two years. 

pheller said:

We didn't really gamble, we bought a house that we knew would be low maintenance and that we could afford. The other option was to buy completely junk houses in similar neighborhoods. 

 

You've gotta remember that this is not uncommon in the west. Anywhere that doesn't have an overly aggressive code compliance office, or an HOA, will have some people who trash their properties. Even in the city limits this exists. 

 

We just didn't have the down payment necessary (or my wife her patience) to buy into a nicer neighborhood with an HOA where houses sell for $360k+. 

It's common for people to have yards full of scrap and cars blocking the street in town, "in the west?" Are you saying just in Flagstaff? Judging by the population it its a mid-sized college town. I'm sure it's very pretty and nice, but that is the kind of stuff that happens living in a small town, and then on the outskirts of a small town.

pheller said:

The choice was: 

Pay $1750 a month for a two bedroom apartment on a second floor of a overcrowding apartment complex filled with college students while my wife was pregnant or...

Buy a house where my mortgage payment is $1450 and hope that my neighbors give a E36 M3. 

 

Sorry for expecting people to give a E36 M3. 

You made the choice to get a cheaper house payment by moving to a neighborhood with rough houses (hint:that’s why the houses were cheaper) and "hoped the people would give a E36 M3”

We are all ok with that, but now you want to push your views on the E36 M3ty neighbor, and ask for advice on how to deal with him. That’s what most people have an issue with, YOU want HIM to change because you don’t want to live near junk. Looking at the google views, the junk was there first. His is not the only junk house on the street. He’s not a one off. 

You got a cheap house because it’s pretty far from town, in a rough neighborhood, across the highway from a massive trailer park, and now you’re concerned about the way it looks? Don’t want to look like Kachina Village? Don’t move to Kachina Village...

I’m not going to comment on the “eyesore” aspect of this, but there is another thing I’m concerned about - public health.  In Ohio, piles of junk left alone tend to attract pests, like mice and rats.  Which then attract snakes, which cause the mice and rats to go looking for a better place to hang out, usually inside nearby houses.  

We had a rich hoarder in Cincinnati named Karl Kleve.  People living near his various properties regularly had bad pest problems, including an acquaintance who had a rat come up out of their toilet once.

Steve_Jones said:

pheller said:

The choice was: 

Pay $1750 a month for a two bedroom apartment on a second floor of a overcrowding apartment complex filled with college students while my wife was pregnant or...

Buy a house where my mortgage payment is $1450 and hope that my neighbors give a E36 M3. 

 

Sorry for expecting people to give a E36 M3. 

You made the choice to get a cheaper house payment by moving to a neighborhood with rough houses (hint:that’s why the houses were cheaper) and "hoped the people would give a E36 M3”

We are all ok with that, but now you want to push your views on the E36 M3ty neighbor, and ask for advice on how to deal with him. That’s what most people have an issue with, YOU want HIM to change because you don’t want to live near junk. Looking at the google views, the junk was there first. His is not the only junk house on the street. He’s not a one off. 

 

You got a cheap house because it’s pretty far from town, in a rough neighborhood, across the highway from a massive trailer park, and now you’re concerned about the way it looks? Don’t want to look like Kachina Village? Don’t move to Kachina Village...

All true, but there are also laws/codes in place that are not being followed. They're there, they exist, and they're legitimate. Your argument about pushing his views on the E36 M3ty neighbor is irrelevant. At some point the laws/codes were put in place. If E36 M3ty neighbor doesn't like it, he can fight it with the city council--Pheller is trying to play by the rules, E36 M3ty neighbor is just E36 M3ty.

Seems like we're straying a bit - I doubt PHeller personally passed a Property Maintenance Ordinance - this is probably at the County level? and probably has been around for awhile.  As mtn said above, the rules are there, they exist, and they're legitimate.  

http://www.coconino.az.gov/1940/Code-Violations-and-Enforcement

Will it do anything for licensed, registered vehicles that happen to have no muffler and look ugly?  No.  And you probably can't do anything if the vehicles parked on the road (and making the intersection crowded) are legal.  

In reply to mtn 

 From the first post

 We recently inacted a Property Maintenance Ordinance -

so he put the rules in place after the fact.  How is that fair? Like I said earlier, it’s the same as moving near a race track then passing laws to put them out of business. That’s a dick move. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

I don't think pheller is complaining that the neighborhood is bad. He's complaining that compared to when he bought his home it's gone downhill and that has only accelerated since ownership of that particular house changed. So to continue your race track analogy: It's like buying a house next to a racetrack that holds events once a month and then having to deal with new track owners that hold races multiple times per week. pheller is responsible for buying the house in the neighborhood as it was when he purchased. He's not responsible for a new owner making a bad situation worse.

Points about buying one of the nicer homes in an undesirable neighborhood are valid, but it sucks no matter where you live to have somebody move in after you do and watch it all go downhill.

In reply to STM317 :

Agreed, but the racetrack was there already so the potential for more races should have been considered. This is not the only junky house on the street, there are plenty. 

At this point, I’ll bow out. Some of us here will be on Phellers side, some of us will think it’s a E36 M3 move. 

Discussing it here, won’t change that. It is a lousy thing for him to deal with, and I wouldn’t want to deal with it either, but at this point if you’re going after one guy, you need to go after all of them, and be 100% sure you are not breaking any of the rules. 

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to mtn 

 so he put the rules in place after the fact.  How is that fair? 

I think you've fallen into a bit of logical fallacy with this one. "Rules changed after the fact."

So basically any law passed since the founding of the country isn't fair, right?

z31maniac said:

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to mtn 

 so he put the rules in place after the fact.  How is that fair? 

I think you've fallen into a bit of logical fallacy with this one. "Rules changed after the fact."

So basically any law passed since the founding of the country isn't fair, right?

Okay,   now this is just getting ridiculous.  

bobzilla said:

In reply to dculberson :

Here's where your argument falls apart, I also think that the illegal status of drugs should not be. Let people be. They want to OD, that's on them. But you're confusing federal law (that I personally don't agree with) and local ordinances. One gets you jail time, the other a small fine at worst, more likely a strongly worded letter. 

I actually agree with you (gasp!) on drugs. If we took what we spend on the war on drugs and spent it on education and harm reduction we'd have a happier more productive citizenry. I don't agree that local laws are less worthy to follow than federal laws.

@Steve_Jones: He didn't enact the law. The citizens of the county did. Calling him a dick for expecting someone to abide by the laws in place is a dick thing to do. To follow your race track analogy, it's more like you move in next to a race track and the race track continually exceeds the legal noise limit that is in place. A complaint would lead to them needing to police their noise levels better with dB meters and watch the hours they operate. That happens at race tracks all over the country. It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

pheller said:

You've gotta remember that this is not uncommon in the west. Anywhere that doesn't have an overly aggressive code compliance office, or an HOA, will have some people who trash their properties. Even in the city limits this exists. 

 

Do they yell: "Get off my debris pile!" at the young kids?
 

Personally, I'd try to talk to the neighbor first but that depends on what you are comfortable with and what kind of person he is. 

The neighbor across the street has a yappy dog. We deal with it but he makes a effort to keep him quite.

My cats like to occasionally sleep on his Corvette. He deals with it but I make an effort to keep my cats contained.

The next door neighbor is pretty slow about cutting his grass. He's a pretty busy guy and I occasionally cut it for him. 

Neighbors are a lot like family. You can talk and ask, help them out, or tell on them. Sometimes it's best to just let things slide, sometimes you have to be a jerk. 

Another option. Our neighborhood has a Facebook page. Having a forum where everyone in the neighborhood can communicate does make life a little easier. Problems get discussed before they become major issues. 

dculberson said:

It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

No that's pretty much the definition of a dick move. 

Cotton said:

z31maniac said:

Steve_Jones said:

In reply to mtn 

 so he put the rules in place after the fact.  How is that fair? 

I think you've fallen into a bit of logical fallacy with this one. "Rules changed after the fact."

So basically any law passed since the founding of the country isn't fair, right?

Okay,   now this is just getting ridiculous.  

Yes, the idea that you shouldn't have to abide by new rules and regulations enacted by the government is pretty ridiculous. 

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

No that's pretty much the definition of a dick move. 

Why is it a dick move to expect people to act lawfully?

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

No that's pretty much the definition of a dick move. 

I have no choice but to believe you are messing with me. I honestly don’t believe you. 

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

No that's pretty much the definition of a dick move. 

This is a joke, right?

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

No that's pretty much the definition of a dick move. 

This is a joke, right?

To move in next to a racetrack and then complain about the noise? No, that is very much the definition of a dick move. Only thing that really tops that is parking in a handicapped spot blocking two spaces without a tag. 

bobzilla said:

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

dculberson said:

It's not a dick move to move in next to a race track and expect them to operate legally.

No that's pretty much the definition of a dick move. 

This is a joke, right?

To move in next to a racetrack and then complain about the noise? No, that is very much the definition of a dick move. Only thing that really tops that is parking in a handicapped spot blocking two spaces without a tag. 

Now you're changing it. 

We're not saying move next to a racetrack and complain about the noise. We're saying "expect them to operate legally". It is a dick move to expect people to operate legally? Then where is the line after illegal but before dick move? After noise violations? After theft? After murder? 

What if I were to go up and down your street between 3 and 5 AM with an uncorked rotary at WOT? Perfectly legal, assuming I'm under the noise limits. Is that not a dick move? I fail to see the difference. 

I cant believe yall are actually calling Pheller a dick because he bought the best house he could afford across from and elderly gentleman's house that was well kept, then he passed and his reletive moved in and went full Fred Sandford and has 2 dogs that bark until he loudly cusses at them.  Bobzilla, how about you pay for the poor guy to have a big spread in the country so he can insult people who dont have it so good, too?  Im 1000% understanding about his situation as i cannot afford 20 acres in the country or a neighborhood whose homeowners are in a high enough tax bracket to ensure the LAWS are enforced.  I am truly ashamed at  some of you

In reply to Justjim75 :

Even he says it was a rough neighborhood and he was disappointed the other street turned around and his didn’t. He didn’t buy across from an elderly gentleman’s well kept house, this guy was already there with junk in the yard, just not as much junk.

The photo links he posted are from before he moved in, and it’s a E36 M3 neighborhood. Building a nice house in a E36 M3 neighborhood then hassling people to clean up said neighborhood is a dick move. 

He didnt build, read the thread.

He did say the house with the junk was a rental owned by an elderly gentleman that made sure it was kept up, read the thread.

The LAW is on his side, he didnt make the law, lobby for the law, or petition for the law.  While he may have supported it, he didnt just make up rules all by himself after he moved in.

And where did you get the idea he is harassing anyone?  He came to us to find a solution WITHOUT harassing anybody, looking for a way to NOT upset his neighbors.   Thus the title.   I think youre a dick for bot caring about this man, his wife and their newborn wanting a little puece and quiet in a safe place free of rubble and refuse scattered all the way out in the berking street.  Have you put up with a dog or dogs barking incessantly at you on your own property or while youre trying to sleep?  It makes a man nearly murderous and he is asking for advice, help, ideas on how to get his peace and quiet in safe decent looking neighborhood where his kids can play in the street without first updating their tetanus shots and you're calling him names.  Jesus, ever think you're the one being a dick?

Mods, i believe this thread has gone very sideways to the OPs intentions