Good old gramps

MY Grandfather is a very interesting guy. I am not trying to spark an argument, but he's got an interesting perspective here. Check it out. For reference, he's high 70's, wishes he was old enough to be in WWII, was a volunteer fireman, volunteered at the church, volunteered as an EMT with an ambulance, and lived as a quality engineer in several very successful nuclear power plants.

This is in response to our exchange of communications in re carbon monoxide (CO) detectors, rights, privileges and personal responsibilities. We are endowed by our Creator with "...certain inalienable rights..." Let me create an imaginary scenario. When Henry Ford invented his horseless carriage he had the right to drive it. One day when driving through town he splashed the mayor's wife with mud, ruining her dress. The mayor was irate and asked the village council for a solution to the situation. Ultimately the council decided to limit Henry's right to drive through town to 5 mph or less. (Henry was driving near 10 mph when he splashed the mayor's wife.) Henry still had the right to drive, but with this one restriction. Some time later Horace Dodge and Ransome E. Olds developed their own horseless carriages, emulating Henry. One day out in the country Henry, Horace and Ransome were running time trials with their cars on a measured mile. They had the right to do so. The local state respresentative happened to drive by in his buggy. The proceedings startled his horses so badly that they bolted, giving the representative a harrowing ride before he could regain control. When interrogated the rep could not identify which of the trio was responsible for his wild ride because things happened so fast. The rep took the case to the state house opining that, while he could not identify who was responsible, it would help to have these horseless carriages identified somehow so such a culprit could be prosecuted. Dare I mention license plates? Well, you see where I am going. The trio still had the right to drive, but now with two restrictions. How about personal licenses, state inspections, traffic signals, insurance, etc., etc.? I contend that driving continues to be a right, not a privilege as our body politic would like us to believe. Readers Note: Wherever you read the word 'right' in this tome, think also of the word 'freedom.' Now, let me go to CO detectors. I consider that installation of smoke and CO detectors in one's home is a matter of personal responsibility, not a 'law' to be enacted by the state. (Because of the strong fireman's lobby in NYS the 'law' was passed unanimously.) With very few exceptions 'laws' restrict or negate personal rights and/or freedoms. This 'law' requires the installation of CO detectors in each home, even in rental properties. Having served over 30 years in emergency services, both fire and ambulance services, I have seen the tragic results of failures to exercise personal responsibilities in homes and rental units. From where do our politicians derive the right to dictate personal responsibility? Where do we learn of our personal responsibilities? We learn them from our parents, our peers and/or our religious teaching. If you feel as though you have not been affected by restrictive covenants, take a look at your house papers if you purchased a home. You may have in those papers an exposition of the covenants which go with the land. These doubtless have the effect of limiting your use of the property, i.e., limiting your rights. If you rent, examine your contract, either oral or written, to determine which party has what responsibilities. More probably most of those duties are assigned to the renter, not to the landlord. These are your personal responsibilities. Thank you for reading so long of my rant. I shudder each time I hear that a legislature or Congress is in session. Our Creator endowed us with rights/freedoms. Legislatures and Congress seem to be bent on restricting and/or negating them. But who will listen to an old octogenarisn like me who learned love and compassion from his church and parents, who fed a stranger coming to the door asking if Mom had something to eat? She always did. It was part of her responsibility. Tom Bassett

The way that I see it, our little society is really complex web of interactions, and as it continues to develop, some sacrifices must be made for the greater good. Some people are terrified of the phrase "the greater good," but let's look at the fire alarm example: Preventing a house fire has an explicit benefit on the bank that holds the mortgage, the insurance company that provides coverage, the fire department, the neighbors, etc.. It's not only about protecting the individual, but also (perhaps even moreso) about protecting others from the mistakes that an individual is capable of making.

I have no interest in living in a country without effective building safety codes. The quake that hit Haiti this year was much milder than the one that hit Chile, but it killed 230,000 people instead of 320. Building codes (or lack thereof) are largely responsible for that difference.

good point, Josh.

In general, it is not the government that causes the creation of some of these "freedom" restricting laws, it is some A-hole who makes it a necessity by being an A-hole.

(made up example): Does there need to be a law that says you cannot construct an oil refinery in your back yard in the suburb, no, but some A-hole tried to do it once, so now you have to have a new law.

(less made up example): Do we really need a law that says you cannot take huge amounts of high risk investments then leverage and insure them to the point they they will literally destroy the economy of an entire country or cause huge financial damage to the country when it tries to cover your loses? We shouldn't, but if you don't, some A-hole(s) will do just that..

Just remember the a-holes when you jump on these laws...

...anarchy is an interesting concept, until you experience it...

BTW: The government is trying to control all of the land in the country!!!!!!!!:

http://ecopolitology.org/2010/03/22/7-things-glenn-beck-doesnt-know-about-public-lands-policy/

iiregardless of idiology... can he be any more overdramatic?

I also take offense at him calling NJ a rathole.. he needs to visit my end of the state

How did a thread about my Grandfather become a Glenn Beck bashing?
That's odd.

Also, "irregardless" is not a word.

tuna55 wrote: Also, "irregardless" is not a word.

Nevertheless, irregardless.

I think the the old guy is spot on. Some laws are a good idea, some are a good idea that treads on my ability to execute on a bad idea. If a law prevents my bad idea and my bad idea does not effect you or harm anyone else... then GET OFF MY LAWN!

I work for a major manufacturer of CO dectors..

SELL THEM [edit]things[/edit]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! w00000000P

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Also, "irregardless" is not a word.

Nevertheless, irregardless. I think the the old guy is spot on. Some laws are a good idea, some are a good idea that treads on my ability to execute on a bad idea. If a law prevents my bad idea and my bad idea does not effect you or harm anyone else... then GET OFF MY LAWN!

I'm kinda bending this way in my own thoughs about it..

Who was it that said, "the right to swing your fist ends at someone else's nose"? Problem is, we as a society seems to have problems defining where the hell the nose begins.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Who was it that said, "the right to swing your fist ends at someone else's nose"? Problem is, we as a society seems to have problems defining where the hell the nose begins.

It's the "Pinnochio Syndrome" at work - the nose extends and retracts depending on much lying is going on.

We have way too many dishonest people making or wanting laws that affect people who won't stand for that kind of crap.

I agree with writing laws with a clear and present problem has been identified.. but to write them in anticipation of a problem is sheer folly

ignorant wrote: I work for a major manufacturer of CO dectors.. SELL THEM [edit]things[/edit]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! w00000000P

I got forcibly editorialized.

if you don't like the word, put it in the filter, duh.

"In North America, some state, provincial and municipal governments have statutes requiring installation of CO detectors in construction - among them, the U.S. states of Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin and West Virginia, as well as New York City and the Canadian province of Ontario.[6]" -wikipedia

NYS isn't the first, nor the last to adopt this law. Jeeez.. Let's not forget these devices save lives.

You really need to move out to Huntley, IL where they require all new residential construction to have a sprinkler system. (btw.. Disclaimer....I work for a company that makes and installs them as well.. SO I enjoy these laws, they pay for my house and save lives..)

Dear old Gramps died last week. It was Leukemia, not the pall malls (and requisite emphysema) and not the vodka that finally got him.

Sorry for your loss, tuna

My condolences as well. I lost 2 of my grandfathers last year (I have 3, long story) their lessons remain with me always.

I lost my grandfather to the side effects of Leukemia.. never a pleasant way to go

Sorry to hear. Best wishes for your family and my household will pray for him and your family.

Wow. I lost the only gramps I knew a little over 40 years ago. Never really had the opportunity to carry on an adult conversation with him because I was but a wee lad when he passed. You are fortunate to have gotten to know the man. May he rest in peace and may you be comforted by the fact that he lived a full and fruitful life.

1988RedT2 wrote: You are fortunate to have gotten to know the man.

Without going into specifics, I have AT LEAST spoken to him on the phone or seen him in person every Monday (virtually, there has been the occasional Tuesday instead or week missed) for the past 19 years or so. I am exceptionally blessed to have that time.

Sorry for your loss tuna. As others have said you're very fortunate to have known him well. I really miss my grandparents, last one to pass away was my grandfather in '77 at the age of 81. What a wealth of knowledge, experiences and stories.