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SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
3/3/13 7:20 a.m.

While the Good God Almighty thread exhibits with abandon the wonder and endless creativity of a truly loving God , I'm actually referring to the Heavenly Father...

I know. This subject is sure to devolve into a mess. Maybe not- I have faith in you guys!

I heard a quote today on the radio that made me think about how little positive I hear in my normal day-to-day life on the media or internet about God. It always seems to sink to the lowest common denominator.

The quote I heard was good... it summarized a lot for me.

He said:

Everyone is too consumed and worried about the "God of One false move", as opposed to the "God of Whatever it takes".

That is to say, we often consider God to be saying, "One false move, and I'll blow you off eternity", instead of seeing the reckless awe and love with which He sees us and pursues us with whatever it takes, so much so that He doesn't have time for the negative judgmental crap.

I like to search for the "awe" in people I meet, including on this board. I try to live it, though I seem to find my face in the dirt way too often. It struck a chord.

So, help me out... Any other encouraging God perspectives to share?

joey48442
joey48442 UberDork
3/3/13 7:41 a.m.

my favorite is the quote "Id rather be autocrossing (or whatever) thinking about God, than in church, thinking about autocrossing" Find God in what you love.

Also, I have a concept "Ill add Garlic till God says its enough." Its a joke, but its true. I let my inner voice guide me, and I think that it may be the voice of God. Or not, depending on what the voice wants me to do;)

Joey

Fletch1
Fletch1 HalfDork
3/3/13 7:47 a.m.

Well, the Bible will help you out. You are on to something. I just studied the book of Job and his three friends came to him when he was going through hard times. At the end, God spoke that He was upset with his friends for not speaking correctly of Him. Well, what is it that they said that God took such offense to? Well, they formulated a theory of suffering that made God out to be nothing but an arbitrator of justice, a great cosmic judge who visited punishment upon those who did wrong, without exception and instantly, and he rewarded those who did right with prosperity and blessing. This was the kind of God they set before people, a great judge of all men, but not at all concerned with compassion, love, mercy, and patience. Thus the God they set before men was a God far from reality. That is what these three friends were doing, though they did not mean to. They meant to uphold God's righteousness, but they said nothing about his mercy, his compassion, his patience, his willingness to reach out and wait for men and give them opportunity to repent (Isaiah 1:18). Oh yeah, and God had mercy upon those 3 men.

I think Romans 7:21-25 might help. I'll leave it at that and probably not check on this thread as I have a feeling of what it will lead to

FranktheTank
FranktheTank New Reader
3/3/13 7:49 a.m.

He is a loving God, but we are a stubborn people...

God grants me the gifts and ability to race all week. The least I can do is go to his house and give thanks and praise.

http://m.facebook.com/pages/Waggoner-General-Baptist-Church/108282989352903?id=108282989352903&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpages%2FWaggoner-General-Baptist-Church%2F108282989352903&_rdr

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/3/13 8:08 a.m.
Fletch1 wrote: Well, the Bible will help you out. You are on to something. I just studied the book of Job and his three friends came to him when he was going through hard times. At the end, God spoke that He was upset with his friends for not speaking correctly of Him. Well, what is it that they said that God took such offense to? Well, they formulated a theory of suffering that made God out to be nothing but an arbitrator of justice, a great cosmic judge who visited punishment upon those who did wrong, without exception and instantly, and he rewarded those who did right with prosperity and blessing. This was the kind of God they set before people, a great judge of all men, but not at all concerned with compassion, love, mercy, and patience. Thus the God they set before men was a God far from reality. That is what these three friends were doing, though they did not mean to. They meant to uphold God's righteousness, but they said nothing about his mercy, his compassion, his patience, his willingness to reach out and wait for men and give them opportunity to repent. Oh yeah, and God had mercy upon those 3 men. I think Romans 7:21-25 might help. I'll leave it at that and probably not check on this thread as I have a feeling of what it will lead to

Actually, gasp I agree with Fletch on this one. Not necessarily the biblical part, but the misconception part.

My only problem with the God that is portrayed in the Bible is that the human writers gave God such human qualities. The bible shows God as having unconditional love.... as long as we meet her conditions... which isn't unconditional love.

The bible also doesn't clarify one of the major cosmic, universal points as I see it: Love is not the opposite of hate, love is the opposite of fear. In this remedial realm of human experience, we are emotionally predisposed (by design of how our energy is led to interact) to live our human lives as a differential between "Love" (caring, affinity, charity) and "Hate" (aversion, removal, ignorance)... but we are designed - via that experience - to learn to Love (attraction, bliss, peace) as the opposite of Fear (selfishness, miscommunication with the soul, suffering). Many of our more enlightened human fellows throughout history have understood that concept; Ghandi, H.H. Dalai Lama...

moparman76_69
moparman76_69 HalfDork
3/3/13 8:23 a.m.
curtis73 wrote: Actually, *gasp* I agree with Fletch on this one. Not necessarily the biblical part, but the misconception part. My only problem with the God that is portrayed in the Bible is that the human writers gave God such human qualities. The bible shows God as having unconditional love.... as long as we meet her conditions... which isn't unconditional love.

I think you're confusing unconditional love with something else. Unconditional love is loving some one in spite of themselves. God has that for us, like a father has for his child. Unconditional love does not change the fact that we are sinners and are undeserving of what lies for us after this life, that is where salvation comes in. A father loves his child no matter what bad things the child does, but he doesn't let the child go unpunished for those deeds. Sometimes the punishment is nothing more than a withholding of something the child would have received otherwise.

rotard
rotard Dork
3/3/13 8:24 a.m.

“The more I learn about the universe, the less convinced I am that there's any sort of benevolent force that has anything to do with it, at all.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/3/13 8:37 a.m.

I feel that often times for many people the Bible just over complicates things. While it's great, I've seen far too often how people get too hung up in its minutiae and loose sight of the overall message.

If the majority of society - Christians as well as people of any or no faith - would just remember these two words: "Be Nice" How much better would the world be?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
3/3/13 8:48 a.m.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
3/3/13 8:51 a.m.

“We can judge our progress by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers, our willingness to embrace what is true rather than what feels good.” ― Carl Sagan

alfadriver
alfadriver PowerDork
3/3/13 8:56 a.m.

It's never God that's the problem. It's the people who interpret what it means that cause the problems.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
3/3/13 8:59 a.m.

“If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated." ― Voltaire

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/3/13 9:32 a.m.

I think this quote from Mahatma Gandhi sums up my feelings completely

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

ronholm
ronholm HalfDork
3/3/13 9:34 a.m.

Svrex... You know Fireproof has probably saved my marriage directly more than once.

I usually have the TV on out in the shop while I am working just for background noise.. Sometimes it is wallbuilders stuff... The other day I was listening to the "Crusaders of Changed Behavior" track found here http://www.wallbuilderslive.com/podcast.asp

But yesterday I had one of those TV stations up playing the oldies.. The had the first two episodes of "The Rifleman" up... I LOVE that show but it doesn't usually keep me from what I am doing or stop me..

This did..

The Story of Job, as told by Chuck Conners..

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=7YWPYWNX

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/3/13 9:41 a.m.
moparman76_69 wrote: I think you're confusing unconditional love with something else. Unconditional love is loving some one in spite of themselves. God has that for us, like a father has for his child. Unconditional love does not change the fact that we are sinners and are undeserving of what lies for us after this life, that is where salvation comes in. A father loves his child no matter what bad things the child does, but he doesn't let the child go unpunished for those deeds. Sometimes the punishment is nothing more than a withholding of something the child would have received otherwise.

But this just proves my point, re: ascribing human emotion to a deity.

... and if the god of the bible has unconditional love for me, why would she condemn me to a pit of eternal fire if I don't repent for having lying, or not honoring a parent if they abuse me, or have homosexual relations with love? I don't understand how I can murder someone, but simply saying "I'm sorry" would prevent going to hell, but if I tell a little white lie and don't supplicate with a sincere apology to god I will suffer for all eternity.

My point is that ascribing human, childish, revengeful characteristics to God's love is a great way to make money and control people. I've never been closer to God than the day I stepped away from the Constantinian editorial compilation of scripture (what we commonly call the Bible) and fully realized the phrase "God is love." That phrase has an entirely different meaning to me compared to the meaning it has for the people in the church I left behind.

ronholm
ronholm HalfDork
3/3/13 9:45 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: I think this quote from Mahatma Gandhi sums up my feelings completely I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

You are aware this is not a Gandhi quote, and thus by extension you are practicing a human religion.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
3/3/13 9:48 a.m.

“Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” ― Thomas Jefferson

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
3/3/13 9:53 a.m.

“How do you know when you're God?" "When I pray to him I find I am talking to myself.” ― Peter Barnes

Lesley
Lesley PowerDork
3/3/13 9:54 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: I think this quote from Mahatma Gandhi sums up my feelings completely I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Pretty much what this article is saying:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-zuckerman/why-evangelicals-hate-jes_b_830237.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

ronholm
ronholm HalfDork
3/3/13 10:09 a.m.
Lesley wrote:
mad_machine wrote: I think this quote from Mahatma Gandhi sums up my feelings completely I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Pretty much what this article is saying: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-zuckerman/why-evangelicals-hate-jes_b_830237.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

Zurkerman... Good grief.

Why is it atheists always seem to think they have such a good grasp on what someone else should believe... I would argue they are generally WORSE than most Christians in this sense.

At least Christians generally know well enough to not run around telling a 'proper' Atheist what he is to believe about his own religion describing what his doctrine should mean to him.

z31maniac
z31maniac PowerDork
3/3/13 10:16 a.m.

Ya know I had a really delicious chocolate pecan bourbon pie at dinner last night. Quite amazing.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
3/3/13 10:22 a.m.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -- Epicurus

ronholm
ronholm HalfDork
3/3/13 10:33 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: “Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” ― Thomas Jefferson

This quote from Jefferson as you have posted it in this context is a horrible misrepresentation of the intent of Jefferson in this letter. In fact.. The letter itself was a tiding of good will... Please think about that.

From the same letter...

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/thomas-jefferson/letters-of-thomas-jefferson/jefl61.php

Moral philosophy. I think it lost time to attend lectures in this branch. He who made us would have been a pitiful bungler if he had made the rules of our moral conduct a matter of science. For one man of science, there are thousands who are not. What would have become of them? Man was destined for society. His morality therefore was to be formed to this object. He was endowed with a sense of right & wrong merely relative to this. This sense is as much a part of his nature as the sense of hearing, seeing, feeling; it is the true foundation of morality, & not the {to kalon}, truth, &c. as fanciful writers have imagined. The moral sense, or conscience, is as much a part of man as his leg or arm. It is given to all human beings in a stronger or weaker degree, as force of members is given them in a greater or less degree. It may be strengthened by exercise, as may any particular limb of the body. This sense is submitted indeed in some degree to the guidance of reason; but it is a small stock which is required for this: even a less one than what we call common sense. State a moral case to a ploughman & a professor. The former will decide it as well, & often better than the latter, because he has not been led astray by artificial rules. In this branch therefore read good books because they will encourage as well as direct your feelings. The writings of Sterne particularly form the best course of morality that ever was written. Besides these read the books mentioned in the enclosed paper; and above all things lose no occasion of exercising your dispositions to be grateful, to be generous, to be charitable, to be humane, to be true, just, firm, orderly, courageous &c. Consider every act of this kind as an exercise which will strengthen your moral faculties, & increase your worth.

Religion. Your reason is now mature enough to examine this object. In the first place divest yourself of all bias in favour of novelty & singularity of opinion. Indulge them in any other subject rather than that of religion. It is too important, & the consequences of error may be too serious. On the other hand shake off all the fears & servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first the religion of your own country. Read the bible then, as you would read Livy or Tacitus.

See this law in the Digest Lib. 48. tit. 19. 28. 3. & Lipsius Lib. 2. de cruce. cap. 2. These questions are examined in the books I have mentioned under the head of religion, & several others. They will assist you in your inquiries, but keep your reason firmly on the watch in reading them all. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of it's consequences. If it ends in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort & pleasantness you feel in it's exercise, and the love of others which it will procure you. If you find reason to believe there is a god, a consciousness that you are acting under his eye, & that he approves you, will be a vast additional incitement; if that there be a future state, the hope of a happy existence in that increases the appetite to deserve it; if that Jesus was also a god, you will be comforted by a belief of his aid and love. In fine, I repeat that you must lay aside all prejudice on both sides, & neither believe nor reject anything because any other persons, or description of persons have rejected or believed it. Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable not for the rightness but uprightness of the decision. I forgot to observe when speaking of the new testament that you should read all the histories of Christ, as well of those whom a council of ecclesiastics have decided for us to be Pseudo-evangelists, as those they named Evangelists. Because these Pseudo-evangelists pretended to inspiration as much as the others, and you are to judge their pretensions by your own reason, & not by the reason of those ecclesiastics. Most of these are lost. There are some however still extant, collected by Fabricius which I will endeavor to get & send you.

ronholm
ronholm HalfDork
3/3/13 10:46 a.m.
Datsun1500 wrote: I don't need a movie,

?

You do know what I was talking about don't you? and who was involved?

Hint.

Matt B
Matt B Dork
3/3/13 10:50 a.m.

Really, I'm with Curtis on this one. Personally, it seems that ascribing a human-like consciousness to Divinity is just about as problematic as going out of your way to disprove the existence of said Divinity.

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