Grassroots Railroad Sports?

adam525i said:

To continue the Ktichener-Waterloo posts on this page yesterday we rode the Waterloo Central Railway Christmas train from St Jacobs to the edge of Elmira with the rest of my family and two young nieces. They did a really good job, the trains were well decorated with lots of things to do on the short/slow ride, definitely exceeded my expectations and highly recommended if you have kids under 10. 

They're currently restoring their Montreal Locomotive Works 0-6-0 tender switcher built in February 1923 and working to get CP 1238, G5c class 4-6-2 Pacific type steam locomotive moved to St Jacobs from Manitoba to start bringing it back to operational status. They also have a number of diesel locomotives along with some BUDD RDC's and rolling stock. 

I was pretty amazed to hear that if they got CPR #1238 and restored it to operation, it would be the largest operational steam locomotive in Canada, especially considering that a CPR G-5 Pacific is not terribly big. Granted, that was before CPKC returned 4-6-4 #2816 to operation, but being the second-largest operational steam locomotive in Canada is still a surprising feat. The #1238 was one of George Hart's pair that traveled around the northeast US on excursions, and then was sold to Jack Showalter, who ran them on what would become the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. The #1238, and sister #1286, were the last steam engines to travel over the entirety of the old Northern Central with an excursion in 1972, just shortly before Hurricane Agnes wiped out the Northern Central.

aircooled said:

Nick, I don't know if you have ever looked through the Library of Congress for train pics, but I ran across some old ones that where taken between 1935 and 1944 as part of the Farm Security Administration.  Shots of a variety of industries including railroad.  You might find some interesting.  Big collection though, so you need to search.

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/

 

There is a color collection also (not nearly as many):

https://www.loc.gov/collections/fsa-owi-color-photographs/

 

I have not gone through Library of Congress, but I have gone through the Denver Digital Library, who ended up with Otto C. Perry's collection of photos, which are terrific insight into the American Southwest, particularly the Colorado narrow-gauge.

My author friend John Taibi talks about going to DC to go through the National Archives for photos,when writing his books on the Rome, Watertown & Ogdensburg and the NYC Adirondack Division. He said there was a wealth of rare photos on the RW&O that he had no clue why they had been taken or submitted to the Archives, but checking the records when he took the photos out of storage, he was the first one to look at them literally since they had been submitted in the '20s. He went back for the Adirondack Division (pretty remote line, with no real roads until the division was in decline) and they had all the old ICC valuation photos of the line. In 1917, the US government got concerned that they would need to take control of all the railroads if WWI was a protracted affair, and they sent ICC staff to all the railroads to take photos of all the lineside structures and buildings to value the railroad for reimbursement if the government had to seize control. They aren't great photos, often poorly lit or focused or cutting off parts of the building, but they're frequently the only known views of some of the more obscure or short-lived stations and section houses. 

NickD said:

adam525i said:

To continue the Ktichener-Waterloo posts on this page yesterday we rode the Waterloo Central Railway Christmas train from St Jacobs to the edge of Elmira with the rest of my family and two young nieces. They did a really good job, the trains were well decorated with lots of things to do on the short/slow ride, definitely exceeded my expectations and highly recommended if you have kids under 10. 

They're currently restoring their Montreal Locomotive Works 0-6-0 tender switcher built in February 1923 and working to get CP 1238, G5c class 4-6-2 Pacific type steam locomotive moved to St Jacobs from Manitoba to start bringing it back to operational status. They also have a number of diesel locomotives along with some BUDD RDC's and rolling stock. 

I was pretty amazed to hear that if they got CPR #1238 and restored it to operation, it would be the largest operational steam locomotive in Canada, especially considering that a CPR G-5 Pacific is not terribly big. Granted, that was before CPKC returned 4-6-4 #2816 to operation, but being the second-largest operational steam locomotive in Canada is still a surprising feat. The #1238 was one of George Hart's pair that traveled around the northeast US on excursions, and then was sold to Jack Showalter, who ran them on what would become the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. The #1238, and sister #1286, were the last steam engines to travel over the entirety of the old Northern Central with an excursion in 1972, just shortly before Hurricane Agnes wiped out the Northern Central.

I worked with the guy who is in charge of their steam operations about ten years ago doing a job in Morgantown WV. On the drives there and back when I was behind the wheel he'd have his nose in some very old books on how to properly fire a steam locomotive or he was on the phone trying to track down the proper grade of coal to run in their steam engine. Interesting guy, not surprisingly his business was using high pressure hydraulics to form things (metal, sawdust etc.) into high density logs/bails after squeezing out moisture/oil/whatever, we did the electrical controls and programming for a few of them.

adam525i said:

NickD said:

adam525i said:

To continue the Ktichener-Waterloo posts on this page yesterday we rode the Waterloo Central Railway Christmas train from St Jacobs to the edge of Elmira with the rest of my family and two young nieces. They did a really good job, the trains were well decorated with lots of things to do on the short/slow ride, definitely exceeded my expectations and highly recommended if you have kids under 10. 

They're currently restoring their Montreal Locomotive Works 0-6-0 tender switcher built in February 1923 and working to get CP 1238, G5c class 4-6-2 Pacific type steam locomotive moved to St Jacobs from Manitoba to start bringing it back to operational status. They also have a number of diesel locomotives along with some BUDD RDC's and rolling stock. 

I was pretty amazed to hear that if they got CPR #1238 and restored it to operation, it would be the largest operational steam locomotive in Canada, especially considering that a CPR G-5 Pacific is not terribly big. Granted, that was before CPKC returned 4-6-4 #2816 to operation, but being the second-largest operational steam locomotive in Canada is still a surprising feat. The #1238 was one of George Hart's pair that traveled around the northeast US on excursions, and then was sold to Jack Showalter, who ran them on what would become the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. The #1238, and sister #1286, were the last steam engines to travel over the entirety of the old Northern Central with an excursion in 1972, just shortly before Hurricane Agnes wiped out the Northern Central.

I worked with the guy who is in charge of their steam operations about ten years ago doing a job in Morgantown WV. On the drives there and back when I was behind the wheel he'd have his nose in some very old books on how to properly fire a steam locomotive or he was on the phone trying to track down the proper grade of coal to run in their steam engine. Interesting guy, not surprisingly his business was using high pressure hydraulics to form things (metal, sawdust etc.) into high density logs/bails after squeezing out moisture/oil/whatever, we did the electrical controls and programming for a few of them.

It's not just grade, but the size of coal that's important too. I remember Everett Railroad saying that the major decision to convert the #11 to oil-firing was that it had gotten too difficult to find coal that was sized appropriately for firing an engine. Plus then you don't have to have an ash track and worry about irritating the neighbors with coal ash. Everett spent a while testing some sort of bio-coal made from torrefied wood mass that a company was developing. It seeemed to run fine, but there must have been some issue, since they went the oil-fired route. The CNJ #113 crew ran into an issue with their engine where it was set up for firing on anthracite and no one runs a large steam locomotive on anthracite anymore (yes, Reading & Northern fires the #2102 on 100% West Virginia bituminous, because Reading had fully swapped to bituminous by the mid-'30s). They had to find a source and figure out how much bituminous coal they could cut it with and still get it to properly run.

So, remember that great plan of Valley Railroad on Sunday, Ontario Midland on Monday, NYS&W/MA&N on Tuesday? Well, best-laid plans and all that. Having gotten near the end of my trip east to Rhode Island on Friday, I noticed that my stupid 2012 Impala developed a wheel bearing that was starting to growl. Well, I still had to head east on Sunday, and Essex was on the way, so I decided I would still stop there.

I got to Essex on Sunday, at around 1:45, right before their flurry of departures was about to kick off. At peak Christmas season, Essex dispatches four train sets every thirty minutes forr 13 total departure. Three of those are lead by steam engines (2-8-2 #3025, 2-8-2 #40, and 2-8-0 #97) and the last is pulled by a GE 80-tonner.

The problem is, the lighting was pretty terrible, especially with heavy cloud cover. Departures start at 2:00pm, but by then, this time of year, the sun is getting pretty low. They hustle right along, trying to not get off schedule and snarl up their lines, which lack passing sidings other than at stations, and the roads are all pretty low speed with goofy intersections that take forever, so it's really hard to get ahead of them. Pretty much every time I would get to a crossing as the gates were going up. And there were lots of security or railroad police or whatever at Essex and Deep River who were pretty ornery and weren't exactly happy to see someone with cameras.

It was cool to see three rod-driven standard gauge steam locomotives in steam at once, and I think there are some cool photo opportunities, but it just wasn't coming together for me. I snapped some photos of the #3025 at Essex, as well as one of the 80-tonner departing Essex, and then took a single video of each steam locomotive, and that was about it.

By the time I got home, the wheel bearing was noisier. Not death levels, but noisier and I just didn't feel comfortable driving 2 hours west to Sodus and 2 hours back east. So, I decided to head out to Utica, with the thought of hopefully getting some MA&N action one of those days. Now, here's one of those moments that show why I don't gamble.

When I got there, NYS&W had #3040 fired up and was moving cars around in their yard, and I was guaranteed that they were running. But I looked east and could see MA&N #2455, the cool BCRail heritage unit C425, with a string of tank cars hooked up behind it, and the crews clearing out snow around the switch that MA&N uses to access the CSX main to go to Rome. And the big customer in Rome is Sovena, who receives tank cars.

NYS&W #3040 headed out of the yard with no cars, so I figured they were likely just going to grab boxcars at Oneida Warehousing and coming back. MA&N typically doesn't hit the road until noon or so, so I went up into the pedestrian walkway tower at Union Station and waited for them to head either east to Rome or north to Boonville. They spent a bunch of time switching the yard, and I was hoping they were putting a train together, and waiting for far too long, they ran the #2455 back to the engine house, and then put it away. And by that time NYS&W #3040 was back and put away. Well, that didn't work out.

On the way out though, I did catch an eastbound double-stack with CSX's Spirit of Law Enforcement heritage(?) unit leading.

You can also see Adirondack #3573 hiding under the bridge off to the right, which I haven't seen since late summer, when it suffered some sort of mechanical issue. A section of the long hood was removed, so it's presumably still under repair. Hopefully that means I can catch the #2400 on some Cabin Fever Limited trains in two or three weeks. 

So, Tuesday morning I drove out and parked and waited for NYS&W to hopefully run UT-1 again.

A CSX freight passing the NYS&W Utica yard. To the left is the old DL&W/E-L freight house, which now houses a coffee roaster. This building had long been out of service, with E-L first moving the Syracuse & Utica Division headquarters out to Syracuse and then later Binghamton, but it was revived by NYS&W when they took over in '82, although the Suzie-Q has since sold it off. In the middle is some MoW equipment. Then we have the CSX freight. And that white building in the background right is the old NYC roundhouse, which now houses International Paper.

Particularly interesting is that once upon a time, there was a huge rail bridge that went over all this. The DL&W was interchanging traffic with the Utica & Black River, which had become part of the Rome, Watertown & Ogdensburg, but the RW&O had not become a part of the New York Central yet. Unfortunately to make the interchange, the cars had to come across NYC's mainline to the NYC yard, and then get transferred over to the RW&O, and NYC was charging $1 per car to make the short jaunt over the rails. RW&O and DL&W had enough of that and constructed a huge bridge, over 1000 feet long and almost 200 feet high to fly over the Erie Canal, the DL&W and NYO&W yard, the NYC mainline and the NYC roundhouse, and touched down at the RW&O. Sadly, no photos or artist's renderings exist of the bridge. But, by 1891, just three years after being built, the NYC purchased the RW&O, making it a wholly owned subsidiary, and since the economic conditions that warranted the bridge's existence, and so it was torn down immediately. There was a pier that was right next to the roundhouse that existed into the late 1960s, and Doug Ellison's book has a photo of it, but it was demolished as well.  

UT-1 rolls along the famed bit of Schuyler Street street-running, which I took farther south than I usually do. That's F.X. Matt Brewery to the right, which is where the particularly well-known brewery switch occurs. Doug Ellison's book talks about how power came and went at Utica when the E-L went, often arriving and departing with the road trains. For whatever reason, Binghamton once sent a C424 and an E8 up once. The Utica crew needed to switch the Blue Line, and the E8 couldn't do that solo since it would be running in reverse, so they sent the C424, and then they decided to try and switch the brewery with the E8. Bad idea, because with the extreme length, tight curvature and close clearances, they wedged the E8 on the wall and had to fight to get it free. An NYS&W veteran also talks about trying to switch F.X. Matt with a GE B40-8 once, because it was all they had, and the B40-8s were so tall they wedge it against the roof.

That sign on the post in the last photo is pretty telling of the area this is. I'm always very nervous when I'm down on Schuyler Street. It's always been a rough part of town, and it's gotten worse in recent years, and I kind of stick out like a sore thumb.

New York City: 233 miles. This beat up old stone milepost belonged to the New York, West Shore & Buffalo, which later became the West Shore Division of the New York Central, and it's kind of misleading since the NYWS&B didn't directly access New York City, but instead terminated in Weehawken, NJ. The West Shore passed through here, with a spur off to New York Mills (and no, despite what people claim, that spur did not turn 90 degrees and run back through Yorkville. That was the Blue Line operated by the DL&W and they were never connected). This segment of West Shore track is only about 2400 feet, with a spur off the DL&W tracks down past those boxcars, and then it passes under the 5/8 North South Arterial behind me and meets the old Utica, Clinton & Binghamton division of the NYO&W.

Now, this gets a little confusing. The UC&B was owned by the Delaware & Hudson Coal Co., who also owned the D&H Railway, but it didn't connect to their system, so it was leased to the New York & Oswego Midland, the precursor to the NYO&W. When the Oswego Midland went bankrupt, the D&HCCo. leased it to the DL&W, and the DL&W even idled their Schuyler Street trackage in preference to the UC&B access to the NYC yards. During this period, the DL&W actually built a connector from their Utica Branch to connect to the UC&B at this area, but never used it, and then the DL&W lost control of the UC&B when the NY&OM reorganized and became the NYO&W shortly afterwards. From what Doug Ellison could find, this connector was at this location, and the West Shore (financed and organized by the same guys behind the NY&OM, to it's detriment) was built over the top of it. When NYC abandoned the West Shore, but wished to retain the New York Mills Industrial Spur, they had a switch installed and got trackage rights over the DL&W Utica Branch to service it, effectively reconstructing the unused connector on the same footprint. 

Having run around a single extended-height boxcar, the #3040 has now shoved onto the ex-West Shore New York Mills Industrial Track 

Passing by Fountainhead Group, another NYS&W customer who receives covered hoppers of plastic pellets, the #3040 shoves on to drop the boxcar off at SCI Plywood.

After dropping off the boxcar, they then ran light in reverse back down the New York Mills Industrial. This line continues down to Di Highway Corp. who very rarely receives bulkhead flatcars, and today was not one of those days. I've heard that someone is clearing off land to alongside the track at that end to build a possible transload. The rumor was that it was Suit-Kote, who also has facility at Cortland and is a Syracuse Branch customer as well.

Reversing past an old West Shore stone whistle post to go grab the boxcars and tank car it had brought up from Utica Yard.

This photo shows part of where this line was mashed together by E-L. To the left, where that copse of trees is, would have been where the UC&B would have passed through and met the track to the right. There was a diamond here where the NYO&W/UC&B crossed the West Shore, which is the straight track, back and forth. This was all kind of cleaned up and simplified by Penn Central, who yanked up the majority of the West Shore and the diamond and installed the switch, and E-L, who dumped the NYO&W line from the now-gone Canal Street Yard to here and added the switch from the Utica Branch to the West Shore. E-L granted trackage rights for Penn Central to run up their Utica Branch and head over to service the New York Mills Industrial. Particularly odd was that despite Conrail containing both E-L and PC, crews and equipment for the New York Mills Industrial were dispatched from the old NYC Tower 30 at the east end of Utica Yard, and former E-L crews still handled the branch and the eex-NYO&W New Hartford Industrial. Very fractious.

The crew is going to throw the switch and head up the old NYO&W to go access the New Hartford Industrial.

Here is an old 1969 photo with the diamond intact.

Crossing a rare active ex-NYO&W bridge over Sauqoit Creek on their way to service the New Hartford Industrial.

Pulling up to the end of the UC&B mainline to prepare to switch onto the New Hartford Industrial. Prior to 1957, the line that the #3040 is on would have continued south to Clinton, where it would have met the Rome Branch (originally the Rome & Clinton Railroad), and then continued on down through Deansboro to Hamilton, where it would join the NYO&W mainline. The Utica, Clinton & Binghamton never did reach Binghamton, but it was still a pretty important part of the NYO&W, allowing it to reach two major CNY cities, although not in a direct manner like the New York Central. Nowadays, the right of way vanishes 700 feet past the switch, obliterated by the Yahnundasis Golf Club. Bits and pieces of the UC&B still exist further south, some of it as a trail, while the Rome Branch is pretty hard to find as well. Sadly, there was still a roundhouse on the Rome Branch of the NYO&W in Rome until 2014(!), the last remaining NYO&W roundhouse, which was sadly leveled.

Ontario Ave runs parallel to the New Hartford Industrial Track, and supposedly takes it's name from the New York, Ontario & Western Railroad.

Reversing down the New Hartford Industrial Switch to go service Oneida Warehousing. Oneida Warehousing is the most active customer on the NYS&W Utica Branch. Any day that UT-1 is running, they are guaranteed to be grabbing or setting out cars for them. Pretty much any other customer is a roll of the dice, but Oneida Warehousing is guaranteed. They cut off the tank car on the UC&B track before pulling ahead of the switch and reversing down, so that the extended-height boxcars were accessible. 

Switching cars at Oneida Warehousing. They set out the incoming cars on the left, then reverse down to grab cars out of the building, then shove the new cars down into the building. This was always an industrial spur and didn't ever go much further than the line on the left goes. I believe it once hooked left and crossed Campion Road to service the long gone American Emblem Co. plant in the NYO&W days.

Reversing back by that West Shore mile marker. Now, just 2500 feet west, on the NYO&W line is another milepost, with NY 272. So despite being 2500ft apart, there was a nearly 40 mile difference between how the NYO&W and the West Shore reached New York City. Made even wilder is that the NYO&W used trackage rights on the West Shore from Cornwall, NY to the shared terminus at Weehawken, NJ, a distance of about 60 miles. Shows why the NYO&W was a pretty third-rate railroad. The West Shore basically paralleled the NYC mainline, just on the west shore of the Hudson the whole way, and missed somee major cities, like Albany, in that segment, while the NYO&W went due south throrugh a bunch of nowhere towns (Hamilton, Deansboro, Sidney, Walton) and then headed west at Cadosia, through Maybrook, before reaching the West Shore at Cornwall.

Photo from a different day of the NYO&W milepost

We're back on the DL&W as UT-1 heads south to Sangerfield to drop off that tanker car. They're crossing Genesee Street in New Hartford and passing by the old DL&W New Hartford depot, which is now The Beer Pit, with an old DL&W wooden caboose that was used as a hair salon at one point. Judging by the decrepit state of the caboose, I do not believe it is being used for that purpose anymore.

Passing by the old depot at Chadwicks, which I believe is currently empty. They're starting the battle with Paris Hill, the longest and steepest grade on the entire DL&W system, and once a helper district in the steam era, so they're pouring on the horsepower and the speed through here to make it up.

Screaming through people's front yards at Clayville, NY