Greece. I wish I was more interested in grease, but not this time.

A country like Greece should have never entered the Euro. Southern European Countries can never compete with northern European countries on an export basis, they simply do not have the factories to make enough stuff to sell it at a huge profit.. what they do have is warm weather and lots of access to the med.. perfect for northern Europeans to come and vacation at.

If they had kept their own currency, it would be valued less than the Euro, which would make Greece a -very- hot spot to vacation in... the Euro would simply go that much further.

SVreX wrote:

fritzsch wrote: It wasn't Greece's fault, for the most part. As part of loan agreements and other such agreements, other Eurozone countries, Germany being the biggest player, required Greece to accept harsh austerity packages.

So, you are saying it wasn't Greece's fault that they borrowed more money than they could pay back? Huh??

I am saying the austerity forced upon Greece in exchange for more loans - to prevent default on debt - crippled the economy and sent it into a feedback cycle of austerity -> terrible economic performance and reduced revenues-> more loans -> more austerity etc...to satisfy the ideology of the creditors that the problem was lazy Greeks or not enough confidence.

In reply to fritzsch:

Yes, I understand there are layers of complexity.

But at the core, you are still saying the same thing.

They borrowed money with bad terms to pay off other debt they had already incurred.

So, they got a loan from the Mafia to pay off their credit cards which were over extended.

It's still terrible decision making on the part of their leadership, as was joining the Euro in the first place.

To say it's not their fault is silly.

They may no longer be in control of their future, but they still bear responsibility for putting themselves in this situation.

If what you are saying is that the terms were too harsh to sustain and that leniency should be considered, then we agree.

But "not their fault"- Nope.

Cousin balki is to blame.

We'll find out soon enough won't we...

So Greece has pretty much turned into the brother-in-law of the Euro zone. He just needs a few bucks to get back on his feet. Maybe sleep on Germany's couch for a few days til they get a place of their own.

thank you greedy conniving unregulated entities that have way too much berkeleying power/money.

But thats what you get when you have politicians whose only interest is getting re-elected

and the biggest joke is all these other nations talking smack about Greece when they were doing the same hiding of debt by borrowing from private banks. Its just that Greece doubled down on it...

Greece, from what I've read, has a horrible tax evasion problem. Like, way worse than in the U.S. Or, almost anywhere. People hide income, because the government is corrupt and wasteful with tax revenues. So, the Greek people are not in as bad a shape as one might think, it's just the Greek government that's about to implode.

Lesson: want people to pay their taxes? Have an above-board government; crack down on waste, fraud, and pork. A lesson other countries (cough USA cough) would do well to learn.

Was just reading that in Greece tax evasion is the norm, before reading Volvo abvove apparently(edited that in). The highest rate of tax evasion in Europe, by a LARGE margin as well. So basically they want Europe to subsidize their massive welfare state. Don't want to pay their taxes, want free money and massive state pensions (social security in the US), and all the handouts of a economically healthy nation like Norway or Germany.

I would say FINE, so long as Turkey can join the EU and they then can annex you. If you want to be subsidized so badly give up your territorial rights as well. Basically what we do with the south in the United States, whose southern states are the largest takers of welfare money per capita.

If they switch to the Drachma as people predict now it's going to be an apocalyptic collapse for the country. That currency will have MASSIVE inflation at the rate of the Reichsmark post WW1. Fortunately the chances of a Hitlerxander the Great rising up and doing anything worth noting are none.

madmallard wrote: and the biggest joke is all these other nations talking smack about Greece when they were doing the same hiding of debt by borrowing from private banks. Its just that Greece doubled down on it...

Those other states produce products more than old buildings and have people who pay their taxes. Or are actually TRYING austerity.