Spa + 350-425 Shuffle= TONS of fun
got in a room, (lucky) that was full of people that actually wanted to race, many countries were there haha The server decided to be nice to me tonight, joined many rooms and was able to get a few races in and have some fun with the GT500 Stealth GT-R.
I thought I did well in GT. I kept the car off the walls and was running an ok pace. I got a BS ramming penalty when RMD wanted to see how an orange stripe looked on my XKR in the first real corner, but focused on being clean and consistent. That was a challenge with no practice and only a handful of warmup laps. Overtook grae when he pitted and closed the gap to Hunter down to 35ish seconds, but the race went away from me as my tires went away. Grae eventually caught me, and even though I tried to fend him off once he cleared me he ran away.
It seems Spec 2 has a far smaller sweet spot on the tires. my tired seemed to go away fairly significantly at about 70% of wear. Even driving conservatively I would still slide much more than when I was pushing the first couple laps. By the end of the race I had about 10% remaining and it was like driving on ice.
Saloon requires practice. I didn't have it and was awful. I finally dropped on lap 6 after RMD left, I had no one to race with and was about to be lapped. I would have fought through the race if someone would have been there to be awful with me, but since it was just me I didn't want to ruin the race for the 3 remaining guys that were competitive with each other. I may prep and run the Volvo for the sake of keeping it on the track in this class.
I believe that i'm done with this series. 
I don't care enough to learn to play with a different set of buttons, don't have room/money/enough care to buy a decent wheel for a game.
I just can't hack it with no ABS. Every single corner, even with my brakes turned all the way down, it's just one big lurid slide into it, which turns my tires red, which means i don't hook on the way out. I had all four corners damaged on my car by halfway through the first lap.
It's my fault, i just can't do it.
I'll be back for shuffle races, i do ok with those. 
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I hate to hear that Celica, the drivers list just doesen't look right without your and all the other original members on it. I don't know anyone personally but never-the-less I feel like there's a friendship that we all share because of our common interests. I hope we can figure out a way to keep the GRM series strong and create an environment where all can have a good time. If you recall, when I first joined, I was frustrated to the max. by the same problems you stated - especially with the Cosmo. I made up my mind that I'd hang in there and hopefully I'd get better at the no aids races. Anyway, I'm well aware of the frustrations in doing so.
I too agree that there are several differences in the Series 2 update. One, as Brad mentioned, is tire wear. One of the most significant others is handling. Maybe they attempted to make it more realistic, I don't know exactly what it is.
My state of mind last night could best be described as stunned. Lack of sleep, constant demanding tasks to perform, many of them critical. Too much to remember, etc., etc. You guys don't need to hear a blow by blow account. When I first entered the room last night I was confused by everything. Why wasn't the room TM REV., what was everyone doing, whose lounge was it anyway, etc. When Spy suggested that I set the TM room up in my lounge I did, and soon everyone joined. Don't know why but I couldn't set up the GT specs. That page had the appearance of someone else's open room in the lobby. Also, I wasn't sure of the # of laps. I asked if anyone else did and don't recall anyone saying that they did, so I just left it at that.
So I qualified last for GT and made it to 2nd. within a couple of laps I think. It appeared that everyone was seeing if the grass had any traction. Around lap 6 I took my steering hand off the controller to scratch my rt. eye. It was driving me nuts. This resulted in my running head on into the wall after the long tunnel. So I pitted for tires and as Brad said, as his wore down, I finally managed to make it back to P2.
Fortunately Air joined for the Saloon race but with no practice Spy got a lead on him. So there were just three of us left and after my first of two wall strikes, again into the wall after the long tunnel, Air got by me and the race was set. So we all continued on to the end. Spy had to run and I was exhausted beyond belief so I had to hang it up too. Sorry I couldn't hang around and practice a bit Air.
For those of you who prefer the challenge of not using aids, I've come to understand and accept this type of racing. About 10-20% of the online rooms limit aids too, although often ABS is allowed. Most of the time TC is allowed also, but as we all know, it's ABS that causes so much difficulty. The point is, part of the drop outs we've been seeing is the total frustration in trying to drive competitively without ABS. Perhaps we should have an open discussion about this and the question is, who of those who have been dropping out would find the series more appealing if ABS was allowed, and would those that prefer not to use it still enjoy the game as much if it was allowed? I hope that all made sense.
One more thing: if any of you know Apexcarver, send him a PM to allert him of the upcoming shuffle series that will require no prep. time. I think he, like many of us, had a time constraint problem. Looks like he and Air need to try to see if they can help Spyhunter have some 2nd. and 3rd. place finishes.
Just kidding Spy. It's good for all of us to have a competitor that drives at your level.
Oh, yes, Air, as much as I'd like to I'm not going to have time to do the research relative to my oft suggested two series. However, for GT 300 touring cars, you could use approx. 310 hp and 1150 kg. with whatever tires you choose. They're legit. race cars so I'd suggest at least RH tires. The cars look good on the track and the series should be a lot of fun IMO.
I hope I didn't mess you guys up too much by being late, hopefully next week will be better.
It's too bad I didn't make the GT race, I actually practices a bit for that one and the RX8 seems to like that track a lot more then the M5. I did see some of the GT race. I saw Grea catch up with Brad and wanted to yell to him "don't push too hard, his tires are way better then yours!". The tires do get real slick below 30% or so. It's a death spiral kind of thing also, sliding is what kills tires, less traction makes sliding a lot easier, and on and on.
I did run the Saloon race, with a few laps practice and not really knowing the "shortcuts" for the track. I kept behind Grea and Hunter for about a lap but messed up my braking a bit and ended up dueling Mini for a bit. I ended up passing mini completely on accident by effectively jumping past him on the T4 jump (I think it surprised both of us). He spun out on T 13 after that (I hope that wasn't me) and gave up. I did finally catch Grea as his tires were going and we had some fun (until his tires went too far). Grea later got in a dual a lap down with Hunter that looked fun, so Grea wins the most "racin" award.
My claim to fame is No Damage! Woo Hoo! If I was more in shape for the race and I could have kept closer to Hunter, it might have gotten interesting since it seemed like he couldn't resist saying hello to mr. wall at some point during the races.
I will have to post the result after lunch if I remember, I left them at home.
I don't know if it is the new physics model, my lack of recent driving, or just these cars, but Trial Mountain was kind of a bitch to drive! Probably the worst is the bumps! Especially when braking, it made it really easy to lock up the tires. I probably could have spend some time with the suspension, that might have helped a bit.
I would say by far the most difficult / critical corners were the T2, T1 combo. You do that one wrong.. your in the wall! You could not cut T2 to close and fast, otherwise you get airborn (at least I did) and could not turn into 1 (wall time). Getting a good cut on T1 seemed the most critical. Learning to cut T2, T1, T12 and T12 seemed to be a big deal and could save a lot of time.
Next Week SS Route 5, lots of walls, argh! I will try and get more practice this time, we really don't want Hunter to get bored up front (probably why he was hitting things
Ben, you just doin it wrong!
I got so used to having no aids, I actually prefer it now, I run everything with no ABS and any aids lol I dunno, maybe the controller is just more a part of me compared to others, I can do work with a controller! haha I was out and away from the house last night but i'm going to have to make the next race and of course, last night the server was nice to me....figures! I do love Trial Mountain so I was bummed I missed it
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I believe that i'm done with this series.
If you are bowing out, maybe you can do some experimentation for us.
Show up for the races (use whatever legal car you want) and run with ABS and see what improvement you get. Obviously you will need to drive as carefully as possible around other cars since you don't want to take anyone out when you are not running for points.
I think all of us would rather have a good race then worry about who gets the most points (cough.. hunter). So show up and have fun. Worst case, you can drive slower and dice it up with the rear of the pack, that's really what everyone likes anyway (I am assuming, but I think that is correct).
The current setup for the shuffle race is ABS for controller, Brake Bias Adjustment for wheels. Maybe we can just work that into all the future series.
If anyone has the time (hunter?, F40?), it would be great for someone to do a full test of ABS vs non-ABS. Do some laps on a track until you are consistent, with both ABS and non-ABS and see what the difference is. Obviously cars and tracks with make a big difference, but I want to see what kind of difference we are talking about. I am suspicious it may be small or non-existent.
Also, realistically, all of the cars we are using in this series DO have ABS, so it is a bit unrealistic to run without them (do they remove ABS on race cars?). When we run a historic type series, it is much more reasonable to not have ABS (ABS equipped Europa, I think not)
aircooled wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I believe that i'm done with this series.If you are bowing out, maybe you can do some experimentation for us. Show up for the races (use whatever legal car you want) and run with ABS and see what improvement you get. Obviously you will need to drive as carefully as possible around other cars since you don't want to take anyone out when you are not running for points. I think all of us would rather have a good race then worry about who gets the most points (cough.. hunter).
Yeah, i can do that. I'm not really competitive either way, but i have a much greater chance of making it farther than half a lap without catastrophic failure with ABS on.
Rest be assured, it's not going to suddenly make me a front-runner, i'll tell you that much.
NickF40 wrote: Ben, you just doin it wrong!
You use the modified "new style" controller layout, though. I don't, and i really don't care to learn any other layout.
What's interesting to me, is that we're currently doing testing on another forum for another series. (Which is what you all walked into last night, btw) I can say with reasonable conviction that i'll be a front runner there. The only aid that's being allowed is ABS.
I think for the GRM series, it's a combination of me always picking the wrong car, and specifications that just don't work for my layout. No worries. Like we saw last week, i can hold my own in the shuffle races, and if we do a PP-based competition, no holds barred otherwise, i'll be fine there as well.
Controller kindof sucks for anything other than Race Softs. I did ok in the Z06 series when i showed up, the Miata as well.
It's just these overpowered, under-tired cars that i can't deal with.
I will try to set aside some time to do a abs at 1 vs off test.
Race wise, I found it odd I hit a wall very near the end of both races. IIRC, it was like lap 17 in GT, and lap 18 in Saloon. If we weren't going to do the shuffle races, I was going to suggest adding ballast to the winning car. Would also remove/reduce it for poor performance as well.
aircooled wrote: I think all of us would rather have a good race then worry about who gets the most points (cough.. hunter).
Yep. I would have kept racing last night if RMD had hung around.
aircooled wrote: Do some laps on a track until you are consistent, with both ABS and non-ABS and see what the difference is.... I am suspicious it may be small or non-existent.
There may not be much in the way of time during a hot lap. The difference is when it comes to out braking someone. ABS cars can just stand on the brakes, non-ABS cars are much more reliant on driver skill managing the braking. Add mixed weather conditions and the scale tilt more to ABS again.
aircooled wrote: Also, realistically, all of the cars we are using in this series DO have ABS, so it is a bit unrealistic to run without them (do they remove ABS on race cars?). When we run a historic type series, it is much more reasonable to not have ABS (ABS equipped Europa, I think not)
See previous point about driver skill. IRL most (professional level) racing series ban ABS. ALMS / LM, F1, Indy, Nascar, DTM, BTCC and Aussie V8s all ban ABS... so it is "realistic" to run without ABS. That said, if it is becoming a deal breaker and keeping the fields down, I would be ok with allowing it. I personally won't run it, but we can it a driver choice.
HunterJP wrote: I was going to suggest adding ballast to the winning car. Would also remove/reduce it for poor performance as well.
I've thought about adding that to every series so far, trouble is that there is no way to enforce it. I've always like that as a performance balancer.
For the record, i don't want to be the one squeaky wheel. If everyone else is fine the way it is now, then don't change anything. I'll still run the series i can have a greater than 10% chance of staying on the track for, and i'll just sit out the ones that i can't handle. No real skin off my back, and i'm not going to make or break the series either way.
It's unlikely with how many projects i have and how many hours i work that i'll even be able to ever hit every race in a series anyways.
The only reason i was able to even attempt it last night was because i had to call in to work to fix the Jeep that day. If the jeep hadn't broken, i wouldn't have showed up yesterday.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: For the record, i don't want to be the one squeaky wheel. If everyone else is fine the way it is now, then don't change anything.
The no ABS thing was a good rule when I was expecting to fill 2 separate grids with racers each week. Truth is, we haven't had a single fill grid yet. I think the record is 11 starts 9 finishers.
3 car races are no fun. If allowing ABS allows you (and others) to race more consistently, then that is better for all.
No one is putting this directly on you... at least not publically.
Also for the record: I blame the physics. They're horseE36 M3 under braking.
If you aren't allowed to upgrade the brakes, you think a stock MKiii Supra brake setup is capable of locking up all four corners wearing Racing SLICKS from anything over 20mph?
I also have reasonable suspicion to think that the tires are wrong, too. I don't think your average street tire should be stickier than Racing Hard tires. Hard to translate between real life and video game, but i'm reasonably sure that my Celica would out turn most of these cars until you throw some Racing Softs on them.
GT - Trail Mountain Reverse Results
GT Standings
45 pts: Greafin10: BMW M3 Coupe '07
45 pts: GTP_Spyhunter (HunterJP): BMW M3 Coupe '07
38 pts: Aircooled (AllAirCooled) : RX8 Type S 07'
32 pts: Baelwerker: Auston Martin DB9 Coupe '06
23 pts: NickF40: Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71
15 pts: RealMiniDriver: BMW 135i
14 pts: BradLTL: Jaguar XKR (pic needed)
10 pts: 92CelicaHalfTrac (concealer404): Toyota Supra 3.0 GT Turbo A '86
Saloon / Estate Trial Mountain Reverse Results
Saloon / Estate Standings
52 pts: Aircooled (AllAirCooled): BMW M5 08
48 pts: Greafin10: BMW M5 08
40 pts: GTP_Spyhunter (HunterJP): BMW M5 08
32 pts: Baelwerker: Holden Commodore SS 04
16 pts: RealMiniDriver: Audi RS 6 Avant '08
11 pts: 92CelicaHalfTrac (concealer404): Lotus Carlton '90
7 pts: NickF40: Jaguar S-Type R 02
6 pts: BradLTL: Jaguar S-Type R 02
The standings are still pretty interesting. A tie for first in GT. Hunter is charging hard in Saloon!
Points don't reflect the one allowed drop.
What was Brad driving? I couldn't save the first race and forgot to save the second.
In reply to aircooled:
I think Brad was driving a MB. Can't remember the model.
canoe
BradLTL wrote: I thought I did well in GT. I kept the car off the walls and was running an ok pace. I got a BS ramming penalty when RMD wanted to see how an orange stripe looked on my XKR in the first real corner, but focused on being clean and consistent.
That was a BS penalty for you. Sorry I tried to squeeze inside you, there. And, not to split hairs, but it's Screamin Yellow.
""
BradLTL wrote: Saloon requires practice. I didn't have it and was awful. I finally dropped on lap 6 after RMD left, I had no one to race with and was about to be lapped.
I was tired. I stuck it out in GT, but slamming into a wall on lap one in the Saloon race was just the last straw. I'll admit to ragequitting.
BradLTL wrote: I may prep and run the Volvo for the sake of keeping it on the track in this class.
I have one, fully tuned. I'll send it to you, if you promise to send it back after the Series.
Graefin10 wrote: For those of you who prefer the challenge of not using aids, I've come to understand and accept this type of racing. About 10-20% of the online rooms limit aids too, although often ABS is allowed. Most of the time TC is allowed also, but as we all know, it's ABS that causes so much difficulty. The point is, part of the drop outs we've been seeing is the total frustration in trying to drive competitively without ABS. Perhaps we should have an open discussion about this and the question is, who of those who have been dropping out would find the series more appealing if ABS was allowed, and would those that prefer not to use it still enjoy the game as much if it was allowed? I hope that all made sense.
I'll admit to dropping out becuse of being frustrated.
aircooled wrote: I kept behind Grea and Hunter for about a lap but messed up my braking a bit and ended up dueling Mini for a bit. I ended up passing mini completely on accident by effectively jumping past him on the T4 jump (I think it surprised both of us). He spun out on T 13 after that (I hope that wasn't me) and gave up.
I wasn't surprised by the jump. I just backed way off, because I didn't want to mess you up with my lackluster driving. The spin was all me. As I said in my previous post, I was tired and frustrated, hence the dropout.
aircooled wrote: Worst case, you can drive slower and dice it up with the rear of the pack, that's really what everyone likes anyway (I am assuming, but I think that is correct).
Yeah, that would be cool
aircooled wrote: If anyone has the time (hunter?, F40?), it would be great for someone to do a full test of ABS vs non-ABS. Do some laps on a track until you are consistent, with both ABS and non-ABS and see what the difference is. Obviously cars and tracks with make a big difference, but I want to see what kind of difference we are talking about. I am suspicious it may be small or non-existent.
I did just that, this evening. I took my 135i on a track (one in this series) in practice mode.
I did five laps with ABS off, brake bias lowered to what I use in our weekly racing. Three of the five laps were red, from hitting the wall in a butt-puckering, "Oh, e36m3" moment.
Then, I did five laps with ABS at 1 and brake bias at default. My worst lap set this way was better than my best lap with ABS off, even the one red lap (zagged when I should have zigged - Doh!).
The biggest difference, though, was that it was much more enjoyable for me, with ABS. I wasn't clenched up, worrying about bending the car up or spinning out if I touched the brakes.
""
aircooled wrote: Also, realistically, all of the cars we are using in this series DO have ABS, so it is a bit unrealistic to run without them (do they remove ABS on race cars?). When we run a historic type series, it is much more reasonable to not have ABS (ABS equipped Europa, I think not)
Following that vein, shouldn't the rules state that everyone sets the shifting to manual? Everyone knows that true racers only have stick shift.
aircooled wrote: What was Brad driving?
Merc C63 AMG Hammer
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