Have we talked about film cameras lately?

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

I had heard good things about the f2. I'll look at f1.7.

I may look into what I can use with my PEN E-P1 digital to start learning flash. I have heard good things about the Godox units for inexpensive options.

References for the f2 vs f1.7;

https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-M-50mm-F2-Lens.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-M-50mm-F1.7-Lens.html

An actual discussion of the two;

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/342100-m50-1-7-vs-m50-2-a.html

It isn't that the f2 is garbage, I think it's probably okay, but the f1.7 just seems all around better for not much more money.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Quite a few great YouTube articles. Also... a light meter. :) 

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

 

My plan with flashes is to use manual flash settings and just check the output until I get settings nailed. 

If you ever notice the greatest studio photographers shooting film (Look at some Richard Avendon) They used Polaroids to test exposure! 

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Thanks man!! Trust me, fo as many "great pics" are some solid black negatives. LOL But... my EOS3 has an amazing Aperture Priority mode. I have to use a light meter with my old Russian tanks and I have, through trail and error, learned adding a stop to whatever that says works out great. 

I have just started playing with Kodak Vision3 250 film. This was in one of my Russian Zenit cameras. It is a fun film, but a little more work to process since it is actually a motion picture film. 

I've a number of film cameras with aperture priority mode but they're from the early 1980's and I don't think the meters are all that hot.  They're okay... but indoors / lower light they aren't that accurate so I start just doing my best to use as slow a shutter speed as possible.  My ten year old Pentax digital camera's meter is miles and miles better, and I bet that EOS 3 is pretty good as well.  I should probably invest in a hand-held light meter and learn how to use it if I want to be more serious at this.

Kudos on dealing with motion picture film.  I can barely make myself develop in normal C-41.   And I've got a pile of it to get through, waiting for me in the freezer.  

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Have you tried one of the cell phone apps? I use one of those anI have a TTArtisans hot shoe mounted light meter as well. https://ttartisan.myshopify.com/products/light-meter

I do want to get a handheld one though with flash metering at some point.

I haven't used a cell phone app in a while and really should.  I also didn't know the TT Artisans spot meters were so affordable.  Do you find it to be accurate?  It looks like the Voigtlander unit that's been around for a while which seems excellent but relatively expensive.

If I'm going to be Really Serious about this I should probably invest in a shoe mounted meter + a handheld + use a phone app and really know what's going on.  Short of that, yes, a shoe mounted meter and a phone app seem like good steps to take.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

I think it seems it reads maybe a stop higher then my cell phone and I think the cell phone seems more accurate. So I am just going down a stop from what the meter says. I only really use it with my Zorki rangefinder but I will also use it with the Nikonos. My OM1 meter is reasonably accurate I find. But it is a lot quicker to use then pulling out the phone, unlocking it, opening the app and checking.  

I don't use a meter for 99% of my shots, but on Android at least the LightMeter app is pretty good, certainly good enough for print film, but I had no trouble using it for slides either. But most of the time I'm using TriX, so it's just get in the ballpark and shoot (HP5 gets the same treatment). Years ago, I shot six rolls of HP5 in a day of street photography in Manhattan and didn't change the exposure settings once (f/5.6 and 1/125).

In reply to 02Pilot :

I use that app too. I just got a roll of Ektachrome so it is good to hear that it will work well enough for slide film.

So I want to try shooting at night in the next day or two. How do you calculate for reciprocity failure? Currently I have Svema 100 in my Zorki, Fuji C200 in my OM10, and Japan Camera Hunter 400 in my OM1n. Can I get away with using an OM10 at night on a tripod even though it doesn't have mirror lockup? I have read that JCH isn't a good long exposure film so I probably won't grab the OM1n.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I don't know anything about the specifics of the OM10, or much about SLRs really, but I'd be looking for a locking cable release if I didn't have a way to hold the shutter (or mirror) open on the camera.

I assume you're not pushing the film? When I shoot at night I just push two or three stops and shoot wide open, but that obviously only works for some things (like street photography).

In reply to 02Pilot :

I was going to take two cameras, one with a high iso film to shot hand held (Rollei 35TE) and the other to shoot long exposures. I have a cable release (pretty sure it is locking) and tripod.

02, he's talking about trying to take mirror slap out of the situation, where releasing the shutter causes the mirror to flip back down into the at-rest position and the whole rig shakes a little.  It's an issue with SLR's when shooting slower than 1/15th or so.  Some cameras are worse than others.  Some SLR's have a mirror lock-up integrated into the self-timer if they have a self-timer.  I don't know any of those cameras specifically so I can't say which do.  I think my MX does, I think my XR7 does, I don't know about my Chinon's but I doubt it.  Hit or miss.  An LX would have it, and all of the Nikon F's like F3, F4 etc most likely.  A locking cable release will not affect this function or lack thereof.  I know I should care about this but I don't have gear that lets me really easily deal with it so I generally just send it because I can't fix it.  

Reciprocity failure is a film becoming less sensitive to light as it is exposed.  The sensitivity of film per an exposure time of, say, 1/500th of a second is much higher than it is after a minute of exposure.  The film manufacturer should provide some curves to help you estimate the reciprocity failure of their film for a given amount of time.  I think these numbers are not always extremely accurate but a good guess and may be affected by different developers and development schemes as well as things like pushing or pulling film.  Honestly I basically ignore it as the times involved to where it's an issue make it sort of a wash and I'm not going to notice a film becoming less sensitive to light at 20 seconds vs 30.  

If you were talking about color film, reciprocity failure takes on a whole new aspect, where different colors will have different failure rates.  Meaning a 1 minute exposure, for example, may result in the reds getting a whole lot stronger than the blue which had a quicker reciprocity failure rate and didn't get as much apparent exposure in the process.  So your long exposure shot of the milky way has some odd color balance issues due to this feature of the film.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

My OM1 does have lockup. The OM10 and KR5 do not. I asked on facebook group and someone gave me the advice that if the exposure is long enough (like great then 10 seconds) mirror slap stops being as much as of an issue since the slap becomes such a short period of time. 

No all manufacturers give that info though. Like I can't find anything on Svema 100 for reciprocity failure. I did for Fuji C200. I have an app on Android called Exposure Assistant that gives a calculation on it but it only has some films. So I just for some it is just trial and error and some bracketing.

That's probably true about the mirror slap event being pretty short vs. a multi-second exposure and how much apparent affect it will have on the final image.  Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji all providing reciprocity curves for their film seems believable.  After that I could see it being spotty.  Agreed that it's probably smart to just bracket your shots and pick your favorite post-development.  

I'm hoping for clear skies and low wind when we have a new moon at the end of this month so I can take a couple really long exposure shots out away from the city.  Maybe I'll shoot color as well as black and white when I'm out there.  Last time I did this was a few years ago and put 45 minutes of time on the clock.  Pretty fun with conditions are acceptable.

You durn film nerds were probably a factor in influencing me to sign up for a B&W darkroom workshop today. 

1988RedT2 said:

You durn film nerds were probably a factor in influencing me to sign up for a B&W darkroom workshop today. 

You're welcome!

I have the TTartisan meter, and it always felt like it metered a stop or two faster than my digital camera and smartphone meter, so on tests on my digital camera, it would underexpose shots. I still don't really trust it and messed with the light sensor to have it "see" less light to make it overexpose a stop or two. 

93EXCivic said:

I just got the Nikonos iii and the Vilia was a slightly tipsy $20 ebay purchase. I am planning on getting a OM 100mm f2.8, 50mm f3.5 macro (to replace the Sigma), an OM 35mm f2 (to replace the Vivitar 35mm f1.9), and maybe a 50mm 1.4. I'd love to add an Olympus Pen F half frame SLR this year.

I enjoy using the Pen F a lot as a travel camera, plop some Fuji 400 or Kodak 400, and get 72 shots out of it is nice for travel use. Currently use mine with the standard 38mm 1.8 and an OM 24mm 2.8 (with adapter). Also kind of fun shooting in mostly portrait mode everywhere like a phone. Wish some of the native wide angle lenses were more affordable, but I think there are some adapted options that could work. Been pondering trying out a manual focus APS-C Canon EF-S/Nikon DX Samyang lens on it due to the frame coverage of APS-C being similar. But the size of the lens + adapter kind of defeats the purpose...

First meeting of darkroom class last night.  Looks like it will be a good time.  A remarkably nice space, with about a dozen enlargers.  We got a brief introduction, tour of the facilities, and then we got to print some.  I was content to get a decent contact print of some old 6 x 6 negatives that I shot a few years ago with the Seagull TLR.  Participants are mostly older, with a couple of twenty-somethings tossed in.  If I make something noteworthy, I might take the time to convert an image from a perfect format to the inherently imperfect format of a digital image and post it here.

So I have a decent amount of TMX on hand, but our instructor asked us to shoot a roll of Tri-X for the next class meeting.  Ordered yesterday, delivered today, by Mr. Bezos himself!  All the more impressive since he was at the Chiefs game last night. 

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

It would be cool to do a darkroom class. Where did you find one?