So it seems that those nasty Lithium ion batteries are being indicated as the likely cause of the fire that has burned up 18,700 tons of fine German luxury and high-performance automobiles. I sincerely hope that someone is working to quantify the environmental impact of this little barbeque.
You mean this https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/please-lower-your-flags-to-half-staff/191858/page1/ ?
There are two threads over there talking about it.
In reply to alfadriver :
Yes, but this thread is specifically intended to raise the interest level in the Off-Topic sub-forum and to expound on the inherently incendiary nature of electric cars in general.
Maybe it will zero out if some people had ordered Tiguans/Touaregs that were on that ship and they go with something else for a replacement 
1988RedT2 said:In reply to alfadriver :
Yes, but this thread is specifically intended to expound on the inherently incendiary nature of electric cars in general.
Yeah! It's a good thing those oil tankers that support ICEs aren't incendiary, never catch fire, and have very low environmental impacts!
And surely oil pumped form the ground never causes any massive problems either.
Lithium mining is bad. But so is oil/gas extraction. Lithium fires are bad. But so is any type of combustion. EVs are more environmentally detrimental to manufacture, but the improved efficiency and lack of tailpipe emissions results in lower impact within just a couple of years for most people's driving habits, and after that it's all net benefit. The issue is not what powers our cars, it's consumption in general that's harmful to the planet. Since we seem to be pretty unwilling to reduce consumption in any meaningful ways, we might as well choose the options that are likely to have the least overall impact.
1988RedT2 said:to expound on the inherently incendiary nature of electric cars in general.
I mean, the alternative is GASOLINE which is inherently incendiary.
There are also major environmental disasters that have been due to shipping the stuff (and the raw materials) around on large boats.
Not trying to defend anyone here, as burning a boat is worse that just lighting many thousands of 100 bills on fire. Just trying to point out that the danger perceived in electric cars now also has existed for many many years in gasoline cars. Pinto, anyone?
In reply to STM317 :
beat me to it.
STM317 don't forget the FPSO Trinity blew up the other week: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-03/oil-production-vessel-explodes-off-the-coast-of-nigeria
Have you guys seen the top ten topics?
I just reviewed the list. Mostly not.
I've not looked at 7 of the top ten topics, and didn't know at least half of them existed
See what I mean? Isn't this fun?!
And STM317, I must admit, oil fires are MUCH more interesting to look at.
1988RedT2 said:See what I mean? Isn't this fun?!
And STM317, I must admit, oil fires are MUCH more interesting to look at.
Too much Reality TV may have built up your tolerance to drama :p. Also, drama /= fun.
In reply to Flynlow (FS) :
Interesting thought. I watch virtually ZERO television, and the reality television genre would be one that I specifically avoid due to its completely vacuous nature.
I'm a reader.
Flynlow (FS) said:1988RedT2 said:See what I mean? Isn't this fun?!
And STM317, I must admit, oil fires are MUCH more interesting to look at.
Too much Reality TV may have built up your tolerance to drama :p. Also, drama /= fun.
Drama = 100% fun when is not your drama.
Not like Porsches have a history of randomly catching fire no matter their fuel source. Oh wait.
But EVs are new! And new is scary!
Mazda has had to recall gasoline cars twice because of spiders in the fuel system. And weirdly, one of the fixes was a software fix.
dculberson said:But EVs are new! And new is scary!
No. Hardly new.
Just a for instance, certainly not the first:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric
And certainly not scary. I just think it's funny that people will ravenously defend electric vehicles and hold them up as some kind of earth-saving technology when in fact they accomplish so little. But I don't think I'm the only one to understand that.
Unless Draconian measures are instituted by government, the electric market will soon be saturated in the U.S., and I for one am not in favor of Draconian measures.
What do you think the saturation point is for the US market and why?
I would rephrase "I'm not the only one to understand that" as "I'm not the only one who thinks this is the case". The former implies that you have reached your conclusion and there is no further discussion, which is a problem that we have in discourse in general these days.
FYI, a fairly recent Yale study looked at indirect carbon emissions of EVs vs ICE. Turns out fossil fuels are not all sunshine and daffodils, but I don't think anyone expected that. But this study looks into the common thinking that the supply chain for EVs is much dirtier than for fossil fuels.
Link to overview (link to study is also there)
Keith Tanner said:What do you think the saturation point is for the US market and why?
We really can't discuss saturation point without discussing artifices such as government "incentives" which of course are nothing but the subsidization of EV corporations with taxpayer dollars in the name of the "public good."
With such interference, the obvious saturation point will approach 100%. Without, EV's would sell according to how well they do the things people expect cars to do, at a price that is competitive with ICE-powered vehicles.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Are you forgetting all of the government incentives for ICE vehicles, government employees double dipping by holding massive shares of petroleum stocks?
berkeley it, you're just here for a fight because "EV new, EV bad".
Government BAD. Free choice for citizens GOOD. That's the argument. Period.
Keith Tanner said:FYI, a fairly recent Yale study looked at indirect carbon emissions of EVs vs ICE. Turns out fossil fuels are not all sunshine and daffodils, but I don't think anyone expected that. But this study looks into the common thinking that the supply chain for EVs is much dirtier than for fossil fuels.
Link to overview (link to study is also there)
I tend to take a VERY cynical view of studies (surprise!) as they are so frequently just happy affirmations for the people that are funding the study.
It would be interesting to see a similar study that was funded by the petroleum industry.
Fun stuff. Carry on. I've got to get some work done!
Appleseed said:Flynlow (FS) said:1988RedT2 said:See what I mean? Isn't this fun?!
And STM317, I must admit, oil fires are MUCH more interesting to look at.
Too much Reality TV may have built up your tolerance to drama :p. Also, drama /= fun.
Drama = 100% fun when is not your drama.
I've never really felt that way, but understand I may be in the minority. It would certainly help explain the popularity of the genre.
RevRico said:
Government BAD. Free choice for citizens GOOD. That's the argument. Period.
This is and always will be the only correct answer.
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