Help me buy a hole in the water (or not?)

That starcraft should be in your driveway.  What's the holdup?

I would buy it, run it as-is with the 15, but maybe keep an eye out for a 60-80 hp.  If you want to plane with a whole family in it, 60 is about the minimum.  Might get there with a 50, but it depends on how many twinkies your family eats, if you catch my drift.  Also, if your family ever wants to learn things like skiing, I would go 70 minimum

Pros to that hull:  Once on plane, it is pretty efficient since it is basically a flat bottom.  It's also overbuilt with generous ribbing and stringers so it's a good solid, rigid hull.  Floor replacements are pretty easy by comparison.  Cons to that hull:  The flat-ish hull means that if you do have enough power to plane, it kinda slaps the tops of chop and wakes so it's a bit crunchy.

So... I would personally approach it like this:  buy it.  If you discover you want to hit non-10-horse waters, either look for a 70 horse, or look for a more inspired modern hull with a larger motor on it already.

If you end up with a pontoon, just be aware that they are incredibly inefficient.  Those fast pontoons you see don't really weigh much more than a traditional boat, but they sometimes need 150 hp to overcome the awful, round pontoons and get the same speed as you would get with a 70 on that Starcraft.

You'll run into a question at that point... do you go fiberglass, or do you stick with aluminum?  Aluminum (much like wood) doesn't do compound curves unless you spring for one of the fancy hyrdro-molded hulls.  Fiberglass CAN (not always) net you a hull that compromises less.  By that I mean they can have more better qualities and fewer trade offs - dryer (less splash in), nicer ride but still efficient, easier planing with less power, etc.  Of course, depending on the hull design.  It's just that with fiberglass, the hull designer has the freedom to engineer it how they want a little easier than aluminum or wood.

But the important thing is... That starcraft is a SOLID starter, and looks like a good price.  The outboard alone is likely worth $750, at least around here.

An 8 hp pontoon boat?  I can't even imagine piloting that thing around.  My 22 foot pontoon has a 115 and it feels glacial to me.  With 8 people, gas and a cooler full of beer it can do maybe 23 tops.

In reply to pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) :

Our 18' pontoon with a 40 can hit 17 mph with one person.  The tubular hulls on those just inhales power.

I'm guessing the pontoon he rented was only about 14-16 feet.

Older pontoons are basically displacement hulls, the round hulls don’t produce a lot of lift to truly plane out.   We had one for a few years when we were building our place as it was awesome for carrying stuff out to the island.  18 footer with a 40 HP 2 stroke, glacially slow ( like 15 mph at WOT) and burned more gas than the 350 / 4V in the big boat.  Good news is I got as much for it after 5 years of heavy use as what I had originally paid for it. 

Newer ones have lifting strakes welded onto the pontoons, a third pontoon or both.   We’ve got bunch on the lake with single 300’s that look to be capable of 50 plus.  The big tri-toons are getting more popular than conventional sport boats and bow riders. 

The only roadblock to the boat being in my driveway is the time to go get it. I spent some time on the phone with the owner, it sounds great. He's spent a ton of money rebuilding the thing and claims to basically be breaking even at this point. I'm hoping to go check it out tomorrow but we already had plans with the kids to go out in the canoe and do some swimming and fishing, so the 3 hours of driving plus boat checking out time is a rough add-in. I may try to pick up some cash in the morning and then do our fun time stuff then leave late in the afternoon to go check it out.

Claim is the transom is solid, all around condition is great, seats are new, floor and interior sides are new and carpeted, all sounds great if the claims hold up.

That sounds like it needs to be in your driveway this time tomorrow. 

I'm betting that 15 horse is a long shaft, otherwise I'd be beating down your door trying to trade you some outboards for kicks.

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) said:

An 8 hp pontoon boat?  I can't even imagine piloting that thing around.  My 22 foot pontoon has a 115 and it feels glacial to me.  With 8 people, gas and a cooler full of beer it can do maybe 23 tops.

It was an 18 foot pontoon, and was almost hilariously slow if it wasn't for how dangerous it felt due to trying to avoid all the speedboat traffic. I calculated about 10mph tops - it took us 40 minutes to go the 7 miles from where we finished up back to the marina. NO BUENO. I didn't mind, exactly, but don't care to repeat it a whole lot.

Also:

Is this how it's done?

Of course it's rougher than it appeared in hopes and internet pictures and descriptions. I hesitated and seriously pondered walking away. But it starts easily and runs well and the hull is in solid shape. The transom is solid. The floor inside the boat is good but inside the tail (where the gas tank and battery are) isn't perfect. It'll do for years. The "dashboards" on the consoles need some work, but I already have some ideas there. The blue parts need repainted, and I think I might color match it to my 1970 F250 truck. There are several extra mounting holes for things that aren't there any more. The motor is started and shut off from the motor itself, which I'd like to move to the console. Some fastener hardware is either not stainless or dime store stainless so it's rusty; I'll be swapping that out asap. In other words, I went and bought myself a good hole to throw money into. I can't wait.

Serious question time: How do I figure out how much to trust the motor? I don't mind sitting on the water for a bit, but I'd hate to stress my kids out on their first outing on this boat by having the motor die. Hold my hand and help me know it'll be ok.

At least I know I can blame you enablers on my bad decisions.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm betting that 15 horse is a long shaft, otherwise I'd be beating down your door trying to trade you some outboards for kicks.

Tell me how to check and I can measure for you.

Neato!

I just found this thread.  I can't see the original ad so I don't know what kind of deal you got but that's all behind us now anyway ;)

I think that's probably a 16' SuperSport, yes?

I have its inboard/outboard counterpart if so:

It has been great for us and I'm now kind of on the lookout for another Starcraft to do up "nice" while we just keep using this one.  We took it out to a nearby lake last weekend (first time we've had it on a lake) and I'm planning to get it out on the Missouri River tomorrow evening (that's where we usually use it).  It'll do roughly 30 mph and gets surprisingly good fuel mileage doing it (Mercruiser 120...old Chevy 4 cylinder engine).  Ours is an '81, I think.

I'm inferring yours has a little Evinrude/Johnson twin on it and as others have said, that'll only be marginally less slow than the pontoon you rented.  Having a boat that is meant to plane but isn't capable of planing is going to be frustrating on a lake that allows the larger engine option.  But use it anyway!  You have the flexibility to upgrade whenever it makes sense.  

Engine reliability.  I'm no expert but with the old 2 strokes, if they can flow fuel and cooling water, they're pretty darn reliable.  I'd stay paddling distance from the ramp until you feel the engine has given you reason to trust it.  And even if it lets you down farther from the ramp...a boat full of family waving their arms is going to get some help pretty quick, I hope.

Remember to put the plug in before backing down the ramp!  (I'm saying this as much for my own benefit as yours)

dculberson (Forum Supporter) said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm betting that 15 horse is a long shaft, otherwise I'd be beating down your door trying to trade you some outboards for kicks.

Tell me how to check and I can measure for you.

Easiest is to measure the height of the transom from the lip to the bottom of the hull and compare it to the length of the body of the outboard.

Short shafts are approx 15", forget length of long shafts, but maybe 6" longer?

https://goneoutdoors.com/measure-boat-transom-7414350.html

In reply to dculberson (Forum Supporter) :

Drive by my neighborhood. One guy put his boat on a trailer out on the main road for the past 3 weeks. After 2 weeks the 25 hp newish Mercury was gone, a few days later the fishing gear and life jackets disappeared.  I'll check again Monday on my way to work and see if the boat or the boat and trailer are still there.  It's a newish 16 ft Lund and trailer. 
     Last time I got a 14 ft aluminum fishing boat and trailer I paid $300 for it and gave it to my son-in-law to get it out of my driveway. 
     Fiberglas boats past a certain age are just  cut up by dealers in order to keep  selling new boats.   Including some pretty decent sized cruisers. 
Same with Marina's people will leave boats at the marina and if they aren't sold by the 4th of July the next year,   into the dumpster they go. 
      My neighbor is getting $2000 a month for the summer months to tie up to his dock. He says that's the going price.   So keeping a boat on a lake is expensive. Plus maintenance, insurance, fuel, etc. Heck It costs me $900 in and $900 out for the dock each year $500 ea way extra for a canopy and the same to lift the boat hoist in and out. 
     We have great fun watching daddy launch his boat for the first time at opening of fishing season.  Real Keystone Cops stuff.  Same when it's time to recover. Only now everyone's bladder is ready to explode  and they are all sunburnt and snarling at each other. 
     I have a 28 ft cruiser that has been very low maintenance since I bought it new in 1978 but it's become too hard for my wife to get in and out.  
This  year we left it out of the water and just put the pontoon in and out.  That boat sits at the end of the dock and all we have to do is cast off the lines and go. 
 So far this year we've gone a total of 6 hours. ( wife's tiny bladder limits us to  2 hour trips)  and an average of 12 hours a year since we bought it.  
    I love living on the lake and really enjoy boating. But the first year of ownership is when you use it the most. 

In reply to dculberson (Forum Supporter) :

Hey, look a that!   Start looking casually for a 3 cylinder 70 HP Johnson or Evinrude from the late 80's.   If you can find one in good condition they're just about the perfect power for that hull.  Lightweight and just about as efficient as a carbureted 2 stroke will get.  Neighbors of ours had one very close to that with a 70 when I was a kid, it had plenty of power to go water skiing and seemed plenty fast.  That should be a 20 inch / long shaft transom.

Serious question time: How do I figure out how much to trust the motor? I don't mind sitting on the water for a bit, but I'd hate to stress my kids out on their first outing on this boat by having the motor die. Hold my hand and help me know it'll be ok.

I would not head out with an old motor unless I had a can of starter fluid and a jump-start battery pack. Most issues you might have can be solved with these two. Also, take more fuel than you think you'll need, running out of gas is easy to do when you are having a nice day on the water.  IMHO, if an old 2-stroke starts, it will run forever. The only issues I have had in 20+ years of old 2-stroke boat motor experience have been electrical or fuel supply.

You will also want a paddle. If you get stuck, it can get you to shore (if you're on a river) or into the dock after a tow. A cellphone is great for calling for help, but you should also have something to flag down passing boaters. Waving will only get you a friendly wave in return.

In reply to frenchyd :

You need to work on your timing! I have the boat in my driveway now.

ClemSparks: I picked it up for $2200. It's not a steal, but it's a good deal based on today's market. I like your I/O drive boat! I wanted to keep this one as simple as possible since it's my first boat and I just want to get out and see how we like it.

11gtcs: Thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye out.

pinchvalve: Good advice, thank you. Maybe I'll pick up one of those lithium jump packs. I have a small portable gas can (1-gallon I think?) that I never use, maybe I'll put some stabilized 2-stroke gas in it as backup on the boat. I'll throw a couple paddles in there, we have extra kayak paddles. 1-person boats don't get much use when you have small kids.

Is an orange flag good for an emergency signal?

Re: emergency signal.  The official answer orange flag, sos light and  flares.  See this link for requirements from the coast guard

The way you end up trusting a motor is by running it, to be honest.  Your first few trips maybe just putter around near the launch so you don't have far to row back.  In my experience, other boaters are happy to give you a tow in exchange for an offer of a cold drink or a couple bucks for gas (which they usually refuse).

I completely rebuilt a Merc M70, ran it on earmuffs, then promptly took it 5 miles offshore shark fishing.  Had to rebuild a carb while I was out there, so I don't recommend that, but as long as there are either people or oars  nearby, go for it.

Definitely give her a tune-up.  Pull the lower unit drain and make sure there isn't any water.  Since it's cheap, just go ahead and drain it and refill since you probably don't know when the last time it was done.  It only has two spark plugs, so that's a $5 fix.  Pull the prop off the shaft and check for fishing line or stuff around the seal.  Anything foreign can wear the prop shaft seal.

Outboard shaft length is basically measured from the part that clamps on the transom down to the plate just above the prop.  Common sizes are 15, 20, and 25 inches, or short, long, and extra long.  It's important to note that those are nominal, not exact.  For instance, my short shaft 3.5 Merc is actually about 16" and the boat's transom is 14-3/4"  It's not a big deal on smaller vessels, but when you get into planing or installing a larger motor, you physically install the motor so that it is properly placed on the transom so that the prop is fully submerged, but not excessively low which creates additional drag.

I'm certain that your Super Sport has a 20" transom, but possible that you have a 15" shaft on the motor.  Prop placement isn't as critical for a "kicker" motor where planing isn't involved.  The quick and dirty way is to look at the orientation of the plate just above the prop and compare it to the bottom of the transom.  If they are basically at the same height, then measure the transom height.  If it's about 20", then you know it's a longshaft motor.  If the motor's plate is higher than the bottom of the boat, it's a short shaft.

And many congratulations on your new hole!

100% of the issues I've had on the water, that I couldn't see coming well in advance, were due to fuel. I'm of the opinion that replacing the fuel filter and cleaning if not rebuilding the carb should be the first order of business on any 2 stroke outboard, shortly followed by changing the lower unit oil.

All the advice about what to do before you go out are spot on.

I'll add one thing.  Keep a list of every tool you use to do any of this maintenance or repair.  Then get a cheap plastic toolbox/tackle box and have all of those tools in it.  That's also where I keep my Whistle, Knife, and Hammer, and spare transom plug.  (I don't actually have a spare plug, but I showed up at the ramp without a plug once so I should really have a spare plug).

That's a fair price in today's market to be sure.  This boat will owe you nothing in a year or two (that's how I say you'll have had more than $2,200 plus operating costs worth of fun with it).

I'm absolutely a proponent of your method:  get the boat and use it.  If you want something different in a year or two, you can go get it then.  Right now you want on the water and that hull is a GREAT way to do it (in my personal experience).

The is a popular wisdom that people tend to own their first boat for 18 months.  In that time they discover they don't like it and sell it or love it and buy bigger.  

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

The way you end up trusting a motor is by running it, to be honest.

I was trying to figure out a way to phrase it without just telling him to send it.
Running with earmuffs or in a bucket filled with water will get you most of the way there, but it won't let you put a load on the engine.  Provided that you make sure it pumps fuel and starts when hot and keeps running, you'll be good enough.

Awesome, thanks again guys. I'll probably run it in a bucket or tub for a bit and see how it behaves once hot, get a few emergency tools and paddles in it, and give it a shot with the wife and kids on shore first. (No sense in them having to swim back if something catastrophic is wrong.)

Also thanks for the support on the boat picking method. I'm a strong proponent of just doing something if you think you want to do it. I do tend to research and analyze too much still, but in the end I think jumping in is the best way to start.

Is this engine cooled from the lake water? I'm afraid I know basically nothing about outboard motors. I assumed it pulled water in from the lake then spit it back out to cool itself.

Eventually I'd like to move the start and stop switch and choke to the console, just because I'm a weenie. I found the key switches easily enough, and can figure out wiring and a cable pull for the choke, but is there anything specific I should look out for or an easy reference or supply for parts to do it?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

And many congratulations on your new hole!

I think most of us could do with at least one more. Maybe two, in extreme cases.