helping father in law pick out a 1/2 ton truck

He's a simple man. He drives fullsize 'merican trucks. Even though we're in Michigan, he's always had 2WD. His current '99 F150 is rusting away badly and has developed several leaks. He doesn't tow anything. He doesn't need a crew cab. He generally drives them into the ground. That's neither here nor there, as I'm a trusted "car guy" he's asked me to find him one. He doesn't want leather or fancy gadgets, but at least a step above the work truck models for power windows (he has a bad shoulder), and a nicer stereo are appreciated.

His requirements... "GM or Ford. No Dodges. ...and no red trucks". lol

Since I'm not a connoisseur of modern pickups I've been doing my homework so thought I'd bounce this off the GRM brain trust. He's not buying brand new, but has a healthy budget, and wants an extended cab. Here's what I've found so far.

GM

GMT900 trucks ('07+): Overall these seem to be a large improvement over the GMT800's. 2010+ have active mgmt on the 5.3, and the 6-speed 6L80 trans.
Extended cab '10 5.3 2WD's in a notch above W/T trim can be had ~$20K

Questions: Is the active fuel management a future nightmare?
Is spending the ~$3K or so more than an '07-'09 model worth it to get the 6-speed trans over the older 4-speed?

Ford

unfortunately the new engine lineup didn't arrive until 2011... so getting a 5.0 powered extended cab is pricier than a comparable 5.3 equipped GM. It looks like the latest body style arrived in '09.

Questions:
Any years to avoid or transmissions/engines to buy the newer truck for? Is the 5.0 that much better than the older motors?

The other option is to just pay $10-$15K for an older truck, but if he runs this into the ground... I'm thinking a newer truck with <50K on it will prove a better buy in the long run if he wants it to last 10+ years and/or 150K+ more miles, and the fuel savings in the newest models are substantial.

Ford with a 4.2 or 4.6. Bullet proof, reasonable fuel economy and usually cheaper than the GM offerings. With no towing, I'd do the 4.2.

Chevy with the LS engines. The engine/drivetrain is solid.

DoctorBlade wrote: Chevy with the LS engines. The engine/drivetrain is solid.

Given adequate cooling the 4L60E is a fine gearbox.

What's he got against dodges? And more specifically, red dodges?

Grizz wrote: What's he got against dodges? And more specifically, red dodges?

Before the Ford he had a red Dodge ('94 I think?) and it gave him numerous problems. It also seemed to be a deer attractant, as it struck multiple. It was a deer that ended up totaling it thus the Ford which replaced it

Early second gen Dodge giving problems isn't shocking to me. The only reason I bought the one I just did is because the front suspension was already replaced.

Grizz wrote: Early second gen Dodge giving problems isn't shocking to me. The only reason I bought the one I just did is because the front suspension was already replaced.

Yeah his was generally one of the poorly performing examples.

I still don't get the red thing though.

Unfortunately the Ram in those years is the best truck. Try to talk him into it.

Stay away from any 4.6/5.4 Ford F-150's. Have him get the 6 or one of the newer (5.0/6.2/EcoBoost/3.7) ones. The basic frame/suspension/body is the same since ~2004 though.

The 6-speed auto GM trans is a big step up to the based on 1960's tech 4-speed. Try to get that if you can't talk him into the Dodge.

xflowgolf wrote: He's a simple man. He drives fullsize 'merican trucks. Even though we're in Michigan, he's always had 2WD.

Why is that surprising? All I ever drove in MI was 2wd trucks. I don't think I needed 4wd except for once or twice in half a million miles in 14 yrs of driving the Great White North.

I'd go drive both of them. I love/hate relationship with competing items on both.

Look into the Ecoboost Fords. Several guys at work have them and like them. No complaints. A few even use them for towing campers and they work well. Get pretty good mpg, especially for a truck.

Yeah, lived in 4X4 country (Alaska) and even owned one. Really good tires on a 2wd is more than adequate. 4X4 can get you further into stuck.

As a Ford owner and fan.... I wouldn't own one in his price range (the newer ones get worse gas mileage than the old ones in 2wd!!!)

I would be looking for a southern 2000-2007 long bed crew cab 2500 I just feel like you get a lot more truck for the money.

I too hate Dodge after an awful experience with one and working on my friends. I have a 93 Z71 I love. If it ever lays down ill just rebuild it and keep driving her. The only newer Fords I really liked were Raptors and Rangers, I feel like Ford has lost touch with the working man, I'd almost consider an American made Toyota first.

Hard to go wrong with any 4,3L v6 chevy equipped truck (especially if a regular cab 1/2 ton). I think the ford 3.7L is a nicer motor overall, but those models are still relatively new.

I don't think you gave us enough info to go on truthfully. Any truck combination of any sort will meet his needs, and if you aren't using the truck LIKE a truck, any of them will do. In that case, I'd personally go ford as the interiors are better. Then again, IMO, the gm's ride nicer. Also, I wouldn't worry about a 6 speed truck if he isn't concerned about MPG, it doesn't make a noticeable mileage difference. 6 speed is all about the torques multiplications!

HiTempguy wrote: I don't think you gave us enough info to go on truthfully. Any truck combination of any sort will meet his needs, and if you aren't using the truck LIKE a truck, any of them will do. In that case, I'd personally go ford as the interiors are better. Then again, IMO, the gm's ride nicer. Also, I wouldn't worry about a 6 speed truck if he isn't concerned about MPG, it doesn't make a noticeable mileage difference. 6 speed is all about the torques multiplications!

Well yes, any mode of transportation will meet his needs. He's retired, and this is his only vehicle. He doesn't NEED a truck at all. I just figured I would sort out the "best" based on fit/finish, long term operating costs (mpg's/reliability), etc. He does drive from Michigan to Texas once or twice a year.

I was just thinking there's likely some break evens that are worth spending more money up front. .i.e. if one engine/Trans package will see a 3 mpg average improvement, (say 18 vs. 15) over the 100K+ owned at 3.75/gal. that's over $4,000 saved in fuel.

Get him a 4.8 GM. He'll be more than happy with the performance, the economy and the longevity.

xflowgolf wrote: Is the 5.0 that much better than the older motors?

Yes. It really is. If he is going to do any sort of towing (of any sort) it is leaps and bounds ahead of the old 4.6/5.4 Ford motor and the GM 4.8/5.3. The torque and power delivery is so much better it's like comparing a diesel to a gas motor. I've towed light trailers (mostly boats and open snowmobile trailers, so 2000-3000 lbs) with all of these motors save the 4.8, and the 5.0 Coyote in the Ford really is that much better.

Grizz wrote: Early second gen Dodge giving problems isn't shocking to me. The only reason I bought the one I just did is because the front suspension was already replaced.

Second gen???

Mazdax605 wrote:

Grizz wrote: Early second gen Dodge giving problems isn't shocking to me. The only reason I bought the one I just did is because the front suspension was already replaced.

Second gen???

second gen dodge truck

He probably means second gen ram

moparman76_69 wrote:

Yucky.

Much better.

I had an 88 that was a Ram, so even that doesn't hold water.This has to be at least the 7th or 8th generation of trucks that Dodge/Ram has made.

I have owned several Dodge trucks, and had little to no problems with them. That being said i have an 04 Suburban, and a 2011 GM van for work, and I think I like the GM vehicles better now. The 4.8 litre in the van is a little weak compared to the 5.9 in the Dodge van I had before this, but the rest of the van is leaps and bounds better. I can only assume the trucks would be similar in overall niceness.

He might want to look at the deals on new 2013 GM trucks - Since the new design is coming out soon; I believe they are giving decent pricing along with cheap financing.

2013 Silverado 1500 - 2WD Ext Cab 157.5" - style LT
Victory Red/Ebony, Premium Cloth Seat Trim

base msrp* - $32,910
colors & options - $0
delivery & handling - $995
total msrp - $33,905
GM preferred price - $32,097

current offers - -$6,750
Cash Allowance: Up to $3,250 cash back
Employee Vehicle Allowance $3,500

Net Price - $25,347

All I would seriously suggest- DRIVE THE TRUCKS.

The GM and Ford interiors are very different, and I suspect that the driving experience isn't the same, too. Being that there are enough positive notes about the pair of choices, it's more important that the choice is the one he likes the best.

FWIW, we had a few extened cab trucks- totally awesome, especially when they were 4 door versions. Not so big as a full passenger area, but great access to what's there. And it's not horrible to sit there in a pinch.

(BTW, any details of "active fuel management"? Not sure what that implies, since there's been active fuel management since the dawn of electronic fuel injection that had some basic inputs.)

alfadriver wrote: All I would seriously suggest- DRIVE THE TRUCKS. The GM and Ford interiors are very different, and I suspect that the driving experience isn't the same, too.

That's definitely true. The reason my parents went FoMoCo with their SUV tow vehicle is that mom said that it had a more car-like feel during driving than the equivalent GM offering.

In reply to Mazdax605:

General rule of thumb, as far as I've seen:

Whenever they first started using the term Ram-93: First gen

94-02(?): Second

02(?)-09(?):Third

Newest is Fourth.

Makes little sense, but that's how it goes.