"Here, have some technology.....it will make things better"

DrBoost wrote: I dunno, cables and linkages worked well enough, and can't be hacked.

Well... technically...

Given it's over the air updates and full integration I wonder where the Teslas fair?

I would rather have a carb and points than have to see to it that my cars' antivirus is up to date. Screw that!

oldtin wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote:

madmallard wrote: how in the world is a drive by wire system allowed to have 2 way communication with something outside its critical function? Thats appallingly stupid design.

Seems to me an air gap would be reasonable. One system for the powertrain/chassis, one to entertain the meat. Does the throttle really need to know what DVD is playing?

Isn't that sort of the, at least in my mind, the major design flaw of the whole CAN bus architecture - that a malfunctioning radio can give you a non start condition. Everything is interlinked. Good for Bosch on the patent front but not so good for everyone else.

The first time I ran across this, a girl had a Belkin iPod adapter plugged into the radio in her Liberty. It wouldn't start, no bus communication; in a case like this you plug in a Star Scan, WiTech or similar, then start unplugging modules. When the bus comes up, there's where you start looking. The tech unplugged stuff all over the car, when he unplugged the radio the bus came back. Plugged the radio back in, it went down again. He unplugged the iPod adapter, bus came back. Plugged it back in, bus went back down. Not a warranty situation because another adapter cable didn't bring the bus down. She was MOST displeased to find out it wasn't covered by warranty.

I am annoyed, because I see this crap over and over again. Why is the concept of least privilege so difficult?

What internet access rights are required by the ABS system? None? Then why is it connected to the internet? Why would you mix systems that are critical (specifically in the loss of life sense of the word) and that require extensive validation commensurate with that criticality (along with the associated slow patch turnaround times associated with that validation) with systems that require regular updates for security?

The networks that control things that could kill someone should never be connected with the networks that are used to connect an iPad to Snapchat. They should certainly never be writable by that network.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

its stuff like this that will be used to justify an official 'apple' cable marked up at 9000%.

Obd1 for the win.

madmallard wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: its stuff like this that will be used to justify an official 'apple' cable marked up at 9000%.

Unfortunately, yes. The knockoff cable was definitely the source of her problem and I'm sure it's not the first or only one that's done it.

Keith Tanner wrote: Seems to me an air gap would be reasonable. One system for the powertrain/chassis, one to entertain the meat. Does the throttle really need to know what DVD is playing?

I dunno. Motorhead and Led Zeppelin on the radio make me want faster throttle response than B.B. King or Frank Sinatra.

Hmmm, well this only serves to further enforce my dislike for the direction that modern cars are taking.

It won't be long till law enforcement remote access can systems and you'll get a note on your display that you've just been issued a traffic infringement. It's also a carjackers wet dream. Sit by the express way and wait for a nice car to come along, remote stop it, roll the driver and then restart the car and take off...

Makes me want a clunky old deisel more than ever.

Mike wrote: I am annoyed, because I see this crap over and over again. Why is the concept of least privilege so difficult? What internet access rights are required by the ABS system? None? Then why is it connected to the internet? Why would you mix systems that are critical (specifically in the loss of life sense of the word) and that require extensive validation commensurate with that criticality (along with the associated slow patch turnaround times associated with that validation) with systems that require regular updates for security? The networks that control things that could kill someone should never be connected with the networks that are used to connect an iPad to Snapchat. They should certainly never be writable by that network.

http://find.fcagroupcareers.com/s/Product-Design-Engineering/Powertrain/Xjcp-cl289866-jf410-ct100247-coUS

http://find.fcagroupcareers.com/s/Product-Design-Engineering/Applications-Development/Xjcp-cl289866-jf410-ct100242-coUS

I'm sure your knowledge will be quite welcome.

Mike wrote: I am annoyed, because I see this crap over and over again. Why is the concept of least privilege so difficult? What internet access rights are required by the ABS system? None? Then why is it connected to the internet? Why would you mix systems that are critical (specifically in the loss of life sense of the word) and that require extensive validation commensurate with that criticality (along with the associated slow patch turnaround times associated with that validation) with systems that require regular updates for security? The networks that control things that could kill someone should never be connected with the networks that are used to connect an iPad to Snapchat. They should certainly never be writable by that network.

And if you don't like Chrysler- here's GM

http://gmibm.avature.net/careers/SearchJobsAllJobs

http://gmibm.avature.net/careers/JobDetail?jobId=1719

Or perhaps you can find a place where I work https://sjobs.brassring.com/tgwebhost/searchresults.aspx?PartnerId=25385&SiteId=5186&Function=LinkQuery&LinkId=3735067

And if you prefer to work for Toyota here in Ann Arbor https://tmm.taleo.net/careersection/10020/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en

Again, direct your anger to fix the issues.

Insurance, anyone? Pretty lucrative game.

itsarebuild wrote: Obd1 for the win.

carburetors and electronic ignitions with mechanical and vacuum advance for the win...

but if one must have a later model car for a daily driver or whatever, i'd say that the mid 90's was right about the time when the level of new technology (abs,fuel injection, good hvac systems, 100,000+ mile drivetrains)was in perfect balance with the amount of old technology (throttle cables, accessory switches that triggered relays for things like power windows and locks directly without a module of any kind) in cars that were pretty aerodynamically sound and not weighed down with 35 airbags or touchscreens in the dash to control everything..

Your cars sensors showed you were "xing", that is not covered by warranty.

Your cars sensors showed you were 1 MPH over the limit, your insurance will not cover that accident.

Your cars sensors showed you are repeatedly traveling over the recommended speed for that zone.

or

Your cars sensors showed you exceeded the G force limits for your policy.

or

Your cars sensors show you were driving in manual mode on public streets for more than .2 miles.

We are doubling your monthly insurance fee, or you have 30 days to find other coverage.

Nobody is forcing us to drive a computer filled car. The only thing stopping us from driving a manual choked carburetor equipped car with points is convenience.

My uncle that ripped TBI systems off GM trucks and replaced it a Quadrajet had the right idea. You can't truely trust even the most basic of fuel injection because any PCM can have an internal failure or a flaw in programming. You cant fix a motherboard along the road but you can fix a carb with a rock and a soda can. Plus the carb gives you more opportunities to develop mechanical skills.

How many times do we have to see bad guys and cops in the Fast and Furious movies shoot magic pods at the hero cars in order to take over the onboard computers before we do something about it?

In reply to logdog:

Yes, we will very much ignore the facts that cars with EFI have proven to be far, far, far more reliable and better driving with more power than carbs.

When was the last time that one HAD to do a tune up in their car? I did 200k miles in my Miata, only fixing things as they broke- which was once for the coil and once for the wires. Over 14 years. No annual tune up, or replacing ignition hardware. Or tuning a carb as parts wear. And it started every day, from the +100deg summer days to the -20 winter mornings. With decent emissions.

You are welcome to go back to carb and mechanical everything, but I don't. And I don't expect that most consumers want to, as well.

Ironically, I just got an email from Mazda touting this: https://www.mazdamobilestart.com "Seamless connectivity between your car and your smartphone" doesn't really seem like a value-add to me, and I'm not exactly a luddite like some of you carb and point lovers.

In reply to alfadriver:

I forgot to use the sarcasm font in my post.

I agree 100%. Nobody would ever buy a car with yesteryear's technology. The customer complaints that come from cars with 30k spark plugsis high. The enthusiast world is freaking out over the current technology, just like they did every other technology. Its like how every generation of Jeep gets called the worst ever, until the next one comes out. In 10 years adaptive cruise will be as common as power door locks because its awesome.

In reply to logdog:

Sometimes it's hard to tell. I was car shopping with my dad once when a guy asked why he could not get a carb'ed car anymore.

Adaptive cruise? Is that what they call riding the bus these days?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/formula-one-cars-could-targeted-6119444

oldeskewltoy wrote: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/formula-one-cars-could-targeted-6119444

That could get me to watch F1.

All your telemmetry are belong to us.

Yank out the internet antenna/transmitter. issue solved.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Yank out the internet antenna/transmitter. issue solved.

until it throws a code and goes into some sort of a failsafe mode..