Here we go again

ignorant wrote: never once did I say that. you cannot protect 100% from acts of god... bush's problem is the reaction.. the poorly unorganized reaction that failed to jump in immeadiately when the locals failed... his fly over, at a slow speed to survey the damage. total crap.

Oh, so Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Condy should have all parachuted in, fired up that field full of empty schoolbuses, and driven each one to safety full of people who are too freaking dumb to leave when they were warned to? These weren't under water until Nagin bugged out and left them there:

Yeah. Like I said, where's that Ignore list?

Rumnhammer wrote: What did you expect the president of the united states to do? Have the presidents pilot drop him off in the midst of the desaster area, to immediatly begin sandbagging????

You know, I'd certainly respect a president more that did this. This whole idea that our leader is the aloof, decisionmaker on high is rediculous. A president is a guy just like any other, just with some additional decision making responsibilities.

I don't know.

what should have bush done..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/tmi/gallery/photo9.htm

ignorant wrote: I don't know. what should have bush done.. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/tmi/gallery/photo9.htm

Ooooh, ahhh. And that did precisely what now to actually change the situation?

duke. your assertions that these people are dumb et al is offensive. I sincerely hope that you never need the help that these folks needed and did not get. Because, right now.. I'm thinking if you ever need help from any government organization, that crow you'll eat will be rather large... And the lifelong guilt you will have to live with will be large.....

bush should have been there right after the situation.. helping people. I would not except anything less from me, if I was in a position of power.

Duke has it exactly right. Nagin fuc*ed up, didn't make the right calls, then of course the lefty press blamed the whole thing on Bush to get even with him for stealing the election down in Florida. Heavens, they couldn't POSSIBLY blame a black Democrat mayor for the problems down there, now could they? So the Sierra Club fought the Army COE tooth and nail in the courts, setting the stage for the disaster, Nagin blew the evacuation call, then FEMA had their share of logistics problems and it all became Bush's fault because he flew over slow. Yup, it all makes perfect sense to me.

Don't tell me there isn't a lefty news bias, either; CNN all day yesterday referred to the Palin 'disaster' (her kid being pregnant) and they all but gave Edwards a free ride when his wick dippin' came out in the open. If the National Enquirer hadn't followed that one to the end and produced irrefutable proof, you can bet the major news outlets wouldn't have done anything with it.

I grew up in Louisiana. I blame:

The people, who didn't leave when they were told to, then decided to run around looting and acting like asses.

The mayor, who appeared more interested in playing race games than getting anything done.

The governor, who had her head up her butt and didn't adequately make sure resources were called in.

The president, who was sloppy and lazy about doing even basic disaster stuff like sending in the national guard and Fema, and who gutted FEMA when he ill-advisedly rolled it into the Dept. of Homeland Security.

Plenty of blame to go around, far as I can see.

And actually the true media bias is for their corporate owners. It's less noticeable, but much more insidious.

You are all dumbasses, there was no hurricane Katrina...

Al Gore made it all up to make Cheney pay for shooting the old white guy in the face BUT forgetting to finish the job. You see the old white guy was building Gore this coal fired house boat, and the boat wasn't going enough over budget.. Everyone knows that New Orleans is really the Lost City of Atlantis and it doesn't really exist on this plane ut rather on a plane that has nothing but chicks that pull up their shirts for beads.

I'm not reading this whole thread due to lack of time, but after the first page and a half, it still seemed like people that can't help themselves, and people that [can, but] won't help themselves are getting lumped into the same category.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the local gov't doing everything they can to evacuate the handicapped or people who are not easily mobile? All the first post said, (and I admit I didn't read the article but only the quote provided by the topic creator), was that people who ignore the call to evacuation will be berkeleyed.

Call me an shiny happy person if you wish, but people who don't listen to such warnings deserve to drown.

No I'm not saying that we (or gov't officials elected by the NO folk) shouldn't help anyone who was stuck there, but people who actively choose to stay are rolling the dice and have to deal with whatever comes up.

And we're STILL not using all those school busses to transport illegals down south on the weekends. DAMNIT!!!

poopshovel wrote: And we're STILL not using all those school busses to transport illegals down south on the weekends. DAMNIT!!!

i blame the cost of gas.

Rumnhammer wrote: What did you expect the president of the united states to do? Have the presidents pilot drop him off in the midst of the desaster area, to immediatly begin sandbagging????

Chuck Norris could have done it.

There's every indication that Sarah Palin could as well: http://www.palinfacts.com

This whole thread got me to thinkin' about blame for crap like this.

Down here, Daniel Island is the latest and greatest in luxury waterfront living. It's convenient to downtown and has a whole bunch of 'Charleston style' houses and the latest shopping centers, schools etc. The real estate agents nearly orgasm talking about it, and it's the upscale 'must have' ZIP code for those who move in from out of state.

Daniel Island has a total of six points which are 20 feet above sea level. The rest of it is between 5 and 15 feet elevation. The majority of the island's soil has the consistency of toothpaste, one company doing drainage surveys lost 2 backhoes when they just plain sank through the muck.

This does not sound too bad until you realize that Hurricane Hugo had a storm surge of 18 to 25 feet at that point. There was a real good reason no one built there until now. The state Ports Authority wanted to put a terminal there to unload ships, the local ecofreaks got all wound up about the environmental desecration of the proposed terminal and the SPA finally said 'screw it' and sold it to developers. Haven't heard a peep from the greenie weenies about THAT, though. Hmmm. Wonder what that cost and how was it hidden? What sorry assed excuse will they give when the whole harbor is jammed with floating wreckage and contaminated with raw sewage, gasoline, household chemicals, paint, all the other crap which gets spread around by storm surge? At least if there was a shipping terminal, the containers and all could be moved inland, etc to try to minimize impact.

When (not if) another big Cat 3, 4 or 5 storm hits that whole area will be under water and many, many millions of dollars of real estate will be damaged or destroyed. Whoever is unlucky enough to be Prez and/or Governor at that time will take a slow flyover to assess the damage and will be hailed as a hero for showing they care(Dem) or excorciated as out of touch for not landing and cleaning the mess up singlehanded (Repub) by the news media.

Of course, either way I will, as a taxpayer, be expected to help bail these idiots out and 'protect their investment'. :rolleyes: Same way we taxpayers paid millions for beach renourishment at Wild Dunes to keep some condos from falling into the ocean, only to discover that it's a private beach and 'public access' is allowed only if you are a guest of a Wild Dunes resident.

Screw 'em, says I. Like my daddy says: once you make your bed, you lie in it. If you choose to live below sea level, don't be surprised when the ocean comes to claim its own again. Don't expect me to bail you out, either.

captainzib wrote: Call me an shiny happy person if you wish, but people who don't listen to such warnings deserve to drown.

I understand the feelings behind this... You need to help yourself etc.. I also agree with Jensenmans comments. There is a reason why I purchased a house away from the water, got my hurricane kit together, and insured everything 8 ways from Sunday.

But, my argument is based around the fact that we as humans cannot do this. It is wired innately for us to help our own. If someone was drowning in front of you, would you call them stupid for trying to swim or would you help? All the internet forum bravado in the world wouldn't stop you from helping.

ignorant wrote: bush should have been there right after the situation.. helping people. I would not except anything less from me, if I was in a position of power.

How about the berkeleying MAYOR and the berkeleying GOVERNOR who were right there BEFORE the situation and did berkeleying NOTHING?

Waaah waaah waaah. You are a card-carrying member of the IABFL. Enjoy your life. Just don't expect me to berkeleying pay for it.

ignorant wrote: If someone was drowning in front of you, would you call them stupid for trying to swim or would you help?

Of course I would pull them out of the water... but that doesn't make it my responsibility to berkeleying dry them off, buy them a hot meal, give them new clothes, buy them a boat, teach them to swim, and then stand by the water for the rest of their life so it doesn't berkeleying happen again.

ignorant wrote:

captainzib wrote: Call me an shiny happy person if you wish, but people who don't listen to such warnings deserve to drown.

I understand the feelings behind this... You need to help yourself etc.. I also agree with Jensenmans comments. There is a reason why I purchased a house away from the water, got my hurricane kit together, and insured everything 8 ways from Sunday. But, my argument is based around the fact that we as humans cannot do this. It is wired innately for us to help our own. If someone was drowning in front of you, would you call them stupid for trying to swim or would you help?

depends on what their other qualities are....just kidding

yes, individually we might react in such a way to help each other, but the analogy only holds if the person who was drowning doesn't immediately get back in the water to see if he can swim yet. Once people become aware of the risks others are taking and have seen the consequences, a weary nation does not feel like helping perpetuate the risk taking behavior by helping rescue someone over and over again.

Duke wrote: Of course I would pull them out of the water...

I win.

ignorant wrote:

Duke wrote: Of course I would pull them out of the water...

I win.

No, you don't, because you've blinded yourself to the important parts of my post.

GregTivo wrote: Once people become aware of the risks others are taking and have seen the consequences, a weary nation does not feel like helping perpetuate the risk taking behavior by helping rescue someone over and over again.

Yes, but we will and must continue to help those that make poor choices... because if we stop doing this as a nation.. It would be one hell of a sad place to live.

Duke wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Duke wrote: Of course I would pull them out of the water...

I win.

No, you don't, because you've blinded yourself to the important parts of my post.

Read back through everything I have said and then find a part where I advocate rebuilding everything for those poeple and giving them the world. Then we'll talk.

ignorant wrote:

GregTivo wrote: Once people become aware of the risks others are taking and have seen the consequences, a weary nation does not feel like helping perpetuate the risk taking behavior by helping rescue someone over and over again.

Yes, but we will and must continue to help those that make poor choices... because if we stop doing this as a nation.. It would be one hell of a sad place to live.

what?!!? ok, now you've lost me.

ignorant wrote: Yes, but we will and must continue to help those that make poor choices... because if we stop doing this as a nation.. It would be one hell of a sad place to live.

No, it's one hell of a sad place to live NOW... it just beats all the alternatives. It would be a much better place to live if we helped those that made GOOD choices and still got nailed, and let the idiots that made bad choices live with the consequences of THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

I'm going to assume that you think burning huge quantities of fossil fuel is an unsustainable lifestyle. Here's a hint:

New Orleans is an unsustainable lifestyle.

ignorant wrote:

Duke wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Duke wrote: Of course I would pull them out of the water...

I win.

No, you don't, because you've blinded yourself to the important parts of my post.

Read back through everything I have said and then find a part where I advocate rebuilding everything for those poeple and giving them the world. Then we'll talk.

so you're arguement centers around picking up poor people in boats once their house has been flooded, patting them on the head and sending them on their way or do you also advocate giving them money to rebuild?

Jensenman wrote: it's a private beach and 'public access' is allowed only if you are a guest of a Wild Dunes resident. <img

private beaches are the work of the devil.

He advocates blaming Bush for everything that's ever gone wrong anywhere in the last 8 years, that's what.