Hey Michigan Voters

I always go back to a piece the Freep did last year that makes me bang my head.
http://archive.freep.com/article/20140523/NEWS06/305230042/roads-taxes-fuel-michigan

2 facts:

1: "Michigan has the sixth-highest state taxes on gasoline"

2: "And based on 2012 data from the Federal Highway Administration, Michigan ranks dead last among the 50 states for investment per driver"

Ha!

It'd be funny if it weren't true. It's also the reason I don't think "raising taxes" is going to "fix" this very real problem.

In reply to xflowgolf:

The taxes on gas here in Michigan are a gas tax + a sales tax. So the actual percentage that goes to roads isn't the full tax amount- we are among the lowest who do that. The rest is there to make up for tax revenue losses from other streams.

(another brick in the idea that there's a min tax neede to run an effective state, and we are currently lower than that)

I'm a well-known liberal on this board. Overall I think taxes are too low and need to be higher at both state and national level, especially for social programs and healthcare. I think Michigan’s roads are an absolute disgrace and should be fixed. Based on that you'd think I was a slam dunk yes voter. I'm not, I'm torn. It's so badly written and confusing I think it's too open to abuse and miss direction of funds. There's nothing in here that says the money has to go to the roads, can only go to the roads and nowhere else. I'm concerned that the money will head elsewhere and they will be back again for another spurious tax in the future.

Michigan is overall a democratic leaning state, but the constituencies have been gerrymandered into a Republican lock out on State level politics which pisses me off no end. You would have thought the ‘anti-tax-liberals-are-commies’ Republican lead state houses could have written a ‘This is what it is, this is how it will be used with no exceptions’ bill, but no, it’s unreadable and unworkable.

Leaning NO, in many ways against my better judgment.

Straw poll amongst friends from both sides says this isn’t going to pass for the same reasons as I have.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

I'm still on the fence- on one hand- fix the roads, on the other- it's the legislatures JOB to do this, not the voters. It's why you are voted in, for crying out loud. Do your job.

I should send a note to my rep and see what they say.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Can I just say, as an opposing political viewpoint, that the very reason you are inclined to say 'no' to this tax, which you like in theory, is one of the big reasons why I disagree philosophically. In other words, I don't disagree that some degree of socialism could work, if people were not power hungry, but the nature of those that long for power leads them to more and more corruption until you have problems like these. We are facing the same issues in SC with our roads, actually. A unabashed freemarket enthusiast, I will not say that financially greedy is naturally superior to power greedy, but lawmakers can really easily write laws to their own benefit ("lobbyist!" is the natural argument against this, anda darn good point!).

Anyway, it's neat to hear the other side looking at the same corruption. I see it as a what happens naturally with a corrupt powerful government.

I'll agree with Adrian that Michigan's state government has been gerrymandered to the point our representatives no longer seem to care what the constituents actually think or want, just what their primary base will vote for. Pretty much no seats are contested anymore outside the primary, and that, coupled with term limits that have fed the power of lobbyists and special interests, has resulted in an especially corrupt and unrepresentative state government.

In that light, it's not too surprising that we are getting bills and proposals like these, and as such we shouldn't be surprised when the goalpost is changed after the fact. I fully expect our legislature to attempt to raid any of these funds once they're able to, should the proposal pass.

I heard a radio commercial today that admitted that Prop 1 is a hacked-together mess, but that we should vote for it anyway because we have to "do something".

Anyhow, you guys have convinced me. I'm voting "no". Good discussion!

tuna55 wrote: We here in SC just said 'no' to a faux "penny tax" for the roads. Michigan, you have hope! Of course now they're trying to raise the gas tax instead...

The faux tax has been passed in some counties, even multiple times in York, Horry, Dorchester and I think Beaufort.

We got screwed in 2013 without any actual commitment to specific projects and then the county has F'ed it up so bad that they have ohly funded the bus system and paved a few miles of dirt roads in 1.75 years of collecting $. Yay for easily duped voters...

secretariata is exactly right. By the way, I think of myself as reasonably intelligent but that article linked in the OP made my head hurt. If that bill really is written that way I would never vote for it.

The big problem is everyone wants big services with low taxes. Ain't gonna happen. Legislators know this and in the interest of not pissing off the voters they try to pass crap like this even though it doesn't really fix anything; it's a panacea. It's about them keeping their jerbs, not about straightening things out.

Down here the Legislature created something called the Budget and Control Board; its only function is to distribute tax revenue while insulating lawmakers from the repercussions of the choices made. But of course it's a source of back room and under the table deals designed to push $ to pet projects here and there.

So we get stuck with crap roads, a school system down here that's so unequally funded it makes you want to scream, etc so forth and so on. It's long past time to raise some taxes and fix some funding formulas. But it ain't gonna happen because if taxes are raised that will put the poor legislator off their career arc of governor and maybe president someday.

..and now there is a bill to raise the speed limit to 80mph in some places. On these crappy roads?

Yes I support higher limits, the timing is just too funny.

Gearheadotaku wrote: ..and now there is a bill to raise the speed limit to 80mph in some places. On these crappy roads? Yes I support higher limits, the timing is just too funny.

It's been defacto 80 for years. I don't even slow down to pass cops when doing 80 these days

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: ..and now there is a bill to raise the speed limit to 80mph in some places. On these crappy roads? Yes I support higher limits, the timing is just too funny.

It's been defacto 80 for years. I don't even slow down to pass cops when doing 80 these days

Nor I. I96 is a pretty constant 80-85. I've been passed by the state boys while on my bike going somewhat faster.

Bringing this back up to remind everybody the election is tomorrow, don't forget to vote.

I'm voting a big fat "NO". I just don't like all the extra spending built in to the bill.

So is my wife.

Woodtv did a poll and it was showing 87% voting it down.

I'll be exercising my voting power

Sounds like it's going to go down pretty hard. I'm voting "no", but I do wish our useless legislature could come up with some solution for our crap roads.

Surprise Earthquake hits Michigan, luckily the roads are unaffected and remain as before.

I just voted NO. Seen about five or six other people vote'n ... so at least in my podunk town this is a hot topic.

Here's my problem with taxes in general, and it does not matter what city, state, etc., nor who is in power. They waste my damn money. We'd have plenty of money if most of it went to what it was supposed to go through. Goggle the cost of medicare for instance and look at what is actually spent on healthcare versus overhead. Or who takes what flight every week from congress and spends taxpayer money to do so. And don't even start with lobbyists or pork spending added to every bill. They both should be banned and have to go through regular channels or no spending on giving your nephew his millions for seeing why drunk chicks are easier at bars.

By the way, we are same as Michigan here in Alabama. Every time someone needs money for improving something, they always want the money to go to the general fund and not a specific payout. I never vote yes to anything that goes to the general fund as the proceeds almost never get spent on what they say. It doesn't matter which party proposes the ideas, it's always the same.

So, just voted, and I'm seriously pissed off. I will be calling the Township office tomorrow to complain. I didn't have my ID with me, turns out I left it out after going to Home Depot yesterday. I was there with my wife and had a non government issued ID with me. Nope, no joy they sent me away. I went home and got my Passport and went back. No problem I was OK with that.

I get back and the woman in front of me has no ID at all. No problem, we know you, you're on the rolls, just fill this out and vote.

Now, I realize I could have filled out an affidavit, I was just tired at the time and forgot. But I'm pissed off, they sent me home, but they know the cute blond so she's in. Same people there. The excuse was 'we thought you had your passport in the car, lot's of people do' Bull E36 M3.

I voted no BTW, even though I'm died in the blood blue Liberal.

with 1% reporting..... 84% of voters are saying a big fat No.

Snyders press conf earlier was him saying he was confident it would pass. Someone is a little out of touch.

we had a special provision in georgia for transportation that was simpler (by some margin) that went to ballot, and it got defeated soundly, even in atlanta.

people are right to be suspicious of large scale projects, and confusing obfuscation.

a bill for getting money to pay for roads only needs a handful of things:

-who wrote the bill

-a description of the bills goals

-the duration of the bill.

-the method of collecting the funds.

-the method of maintaining (and spending)the funds collected.

-who's in charge of the fund.

people are right to distrust any bill that doesnt fit on 2 pages at the most that is supposed to be for a 'public' project.

I heard somewhere today that the pro Prop-1 campaign cost around $12 million. I guess if Snyder and Levin and the rest of the pols that supported it could read the polling data that showed this POS having no chance from day one, that could have been $12 million more to actually spend on the roads!

Adrian_Thompson wrote: So, just voted, and I'm seriously pissed off. I will be calling the Township office tomorrow to complain. I didn't have my ID with me, turns out I left it out after going to Home Depot yesterday. I was there with my wife and had a non government issued ID with me. Nope, no joy they sent me away. I went home and got my Passport and went back. No problem I was OK with that. I get back and the woman in front of me has no ID at all. No problem, we know you, you're on the rolls, just fill this out and vote. Now, I realize I could have filled out an affidavit, I was just tired at the time and forgot. But I'm pissed off, they sent me home, but they know the cute blond so she's in. Same people there. The excuse was 'we thought you had your passport in the car, lot's of people do' Bull E36 M3. I voted no BTW, even though I'm died in the blood blue Liberal.

To be fair, you do talk funny for an American citizen.

Now if had been a simple 5 cent a gallon gas tax that went directly to the roads, nothing else, I bet it would have passed.