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tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/16/22 10:21 a.m.

 

Wrote this today to my senators and congressman,

 

Dear Senator Graham,

 

The situation in Ukraine today is not a war which we can safely ignore in a far-off country. This is not a local conflict which we can play into some distorted neoconservative chess match. What is happening today isn't new, nor is it unprecedented. This is the middle of a rebuilding of the Soviet Union, as an instigating and antagonistic force, and we must decide how it ends. The world has taken notice. This movement has galvanized the UN and the EU, and many individual countries into acting. These are positive steps towards a more united world, which we can all hope for to provide long lasting peace.

 

We are verbally supporting Ukraine. We are sending excellent armament to the soldiers of Ukraine. We are sanctioning and being blatantly obvious to show the world the Russian attempts at propaganda. The Biden administration has expertly countered every propaganda attempt at shifting the narrative with real facts, satellite imagery, and firsthand accounts. For the first time in history, the world is seeing the unwashed truth of a war.

 

And we are sad and angry.

 

World War I ended the period where a war was a series of battles to decide local disputes. Where Princes and Kings stood far off to watch their soldiers die for their cause. We entered a period where total war was probable and expected to return. We live in this global connected world today. To be sure, I understand the risks of entering total war with a nuclear power, one who’s seeming incompetence in conventional warfare is balanced with enough modernized nuclear warheads to end human civilization. I know what it would mean to volley long-range missiles over the oceans. The dirty truth is that this is already a global war. We have already been at total war. It seems the hope of Putin is that he goes slowly enough that we won’t fight back. In 2008 it was Georgia, in 2014 Crimea, in 2022 Ukraine. To be sure, these are all non-NATO countries, then again is this strategy? If in a decade a NATO country is the victim of a confusing propaganda war, perhaps one more convincing than today, will NATO respond as its charter requires? Even if nuclear war is a probable result? Or will we capitulate and assume we must let it end to keep the peace on a larger scale. This sounds a lot like kicking the can down for someone else to worry about later. It sounds a lot like the appeasement strategy in 1938. Hitler and Putin are starting to sound a lot alike. Since Putin isn’t blinded by pure hatred, he’s likely even more dangerous over time.

 

So, what do we do? To start with, we must be better prepared to be sneaky. Putin made up all sorts of reasons to go to war. We can’t avoid this, but we can counter. France sent GIGN security forces to protect the embassy in Ukraine. We sent our ambassador home. Why not send the ambassador back, with a navy SEAL team as the security force? Why not send our hospital ships to the Black Sea, accompanied by a few battleships, subs, destroyers and cruisers? Why not send a nice big convoy of medical supplies and food by truck in broad daylight, accompanied by some Bradley Fighting Vehicles, just for protection? In the Korean conflict, we were surprised to hear that the Korean pilots spoke fluent Russian. Can’t we find some Ukrainian pilots who speak English to assist? I’ll help paint the Ukrainian flags on the F15s. These are ideas from a civilian. You are better briefed on what maneuvers we could make, and what their effectiveness is likely to be. Let’s not just sit on the sidelines and watch, pretending that we always play by the rules while we watch Ukraine get decimated.

 

For official actions, several amazing NATO countries are eager to take on refugees. I have a friend in Hungary organizing a shelter right now. We need to establish a humanitarian corridor for civilians to escape. We have all seen videos of Russian troops destroying random people driving away in their personal cars, or just walking down the street. We cannot let this stand, and still claim moral superiority! I demand we establish corridors from the major cities to neighboring NATO countries. We must enforce these corridors with air support and ground support. Spray paint red cross logos on A10 warthogs and M1 battle tanks if we must.

 

We can easily save thousands of lives from this conventional war. We can do this today.

 

We can easily sway this war to push Putin back within his own borders and weaken his imperialistic goals, setting his administration back decades.

 

Or we can continue to offer just enough support to make it look like we care, while innocent lives end daily.

 

The citizens demand we act. Act now.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
3/16/22 10:22 a.m.

For some reason Russia decided to sanction a bunch of western leaders that don't have any reason to go to Russia or have any money in Russia?

Someone thought this was a good idea.  I wonder what Putin's expression looked like when he was told

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
3/16/22 10:24 a.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

Good luck getting an actual response back.  I don't think I've ever seen a politician at the state level or above reply to a letter in a meaningful way.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/16/22 10:35 a.m.
Mr_Asa said:

In reply to tuna55 :

Good luck getting an actual response back.  I don't think I've ever seen a politician at the state level or above reply to a letter in a meaningful way.

I have! I highly recommend it.

 

Over the years I have: spoken on the phone several times directly to my state senator. I conversed via Email with another state senator and state congressman. I got a phone call and nice conversation with the governors office (not the actual governor), and I sometimes get real Emails back from the federal level congressman.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/16/22 1:29 p.m.

CNN managed to get an interview with the journalist who protested on live state TV:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/16/media/marina-ovsyannikova-amanpour/index.html

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/16/22 2:22 p.m.

I'm surprised that she wasn't suicided. Glad that Russians still have people looking out for their best interests.

02Pilot
02Pilot UberDork
3/16/22 4:10 p.m.

First inklings of an agreement are filtering out through FT. It's a long way from done, but the level of detail in the discussion suggests a certain level of seriousness. They specifically mention the Austrian or Swedish models of neutrality as templates. The irony, of course, is that this invasion has done more to push Sweden away from neutrality than anything else in decades, including Soviet submarines repeatedly violating its waters.

On the subject of Marina Ovsyannikova, apparently there's been a wave of resignations by other journalists from state-run media outlets in response.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/16/22 5:08 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:

For some reason Russia decided to sanction a bunch of western leaders that don't have any reason to go to Russia or have any money in Russia?

Someone thought this was a good idea.  I wonder what Putin's expression looked like when he was told

i just started working on a blues song called Pootin Sanctioned Me

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/16/22 6:40 p.m.

Some tidbits:

- Ukraine is actually counter attacking in some areas, including outside Kyiv.

- Russia has shelled the coast south of Odessa.  The amphibious force there may not be large enough to do much though.

- Apparently some of the Russian shoot downs are the result of S400 systems based over the boarder shooting down their own planes!

- The Ukrainian power grid is now synchronized with the rest of Europe, allowing them to share power.

 

Explosions reported in a number of cities in Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions.

Uh, yeah Put Put, we have seen this movie already, and the special effects where crap.  Or are we to believe Ukraine has ANY motivation to attack Belarus?

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
3/16/22 6:53 p.m.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:
Mr_Asa said:

For some reason Russia decided to sanction a bunch of western leaders that don't have any reason to go to Russia or have any money in Russia?

Someone thought this was a good idea.  I wonder what Putin's expression looked like when he was told

i just started working on a blues song called Pootin Sanctioned Me

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/16/22 7:24 p.m.

I keep seeing new posts in this thread and hoping that it is an announcement that putin was assassinated by the Ukrainian leader with a dull spoon.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/16/22 8:14 p.m.
aircooled said:

Some tidbits:

Explosions reported in a number of cities in Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions.

 

Is that the Spring Break Capitol of Belarus?

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
3/16/22 10:58 p.m.

Supposedly a new Ukrainian postal stamp issue. I would love it to be true.

 

 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/16/22 11:33 p.m.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:
aircooled said:

Some tidbits:

Explosions reported in a number of cities in Belarus. Residents of Baranavichy, Luninets, Stolin, Hantsavichy, Slutsk, Kletsk and other cities reported sounds similar to explosions.

 

Is that the Spring Break Capitol of Belarus?

Do a Wiki search on Russian Apartment Bombings. There's very strong evidence that Putin's rise to power was aided by bombing his own people and blaming it on Chechnya. It would be logical, even predictable if he were to try and spark a war between Belarus and Ukraine via similar dirty dealings. 

stroker
stroker UberDork
3/17/22 11:40 a.m.

So is the imminent Russian "default" due to asset freezing something we need to panic about...?

 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
3/17/22 12:30 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:

Oh for berkeleys sake.  LOL.

You guys wanna know why Russia is gonna lose this?

They don't have secure communication as their Era cryptophone isn't working. 

It isn't working because it requires 3G or 4G phone towers and there are no towers.

There are no towers because Russia focused on taking them out during the invasion. 

 

LOL.

Coming back to this post.  At least one Russian general has been confirmed to be killed for using an unsecured phone. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-general-killed-after-ukraine-intercepted-unsecured-call-nyt-2022-3

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
3/17/22 12:47 p.m.

It sounds like unrest within Russia is increasing to a point of discomfort.  Pooty mae the below announcement which seems dire.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/17/scum-and-traitors-vladimir-putin-threatens-anti-war-russians

 

News|Russia-Ukraine war

‘Scum and traitors’: Vladimir Putin threatens anti-war Russians

‘A necessary self-purification of society will only strengthen our country,’ Russian leader says.

Russian policemen arrest a participant in an unauthorized rally against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in downtown Moscow

Policemen detain a participant at a rally against the Russian invasion of Ukraine in downtown Moscow on March 6 [Yuri Kochetkov/EPA-EFE]

Published On 17 Mar 202217 Mar 2022

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin has called for a “self-purification” to rid his country of anyone who questions his invasion of Ukraine.

Putin went on television on Wednesday to excoriate Russians who do not back him in the attack on Ukraine, blaming NATO nations for using instigators to stir up opposition to the war.

KEEP READING

list of 4 items

list 1 of 4

Russia-Ukraine live news: Mariupol rescuers search for survivors

list 2 of 4

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: List of key events from day 22

list 3 of 4

Ukraine war’s rising cost for daily Russian lives

list 4 of 4

‘Unforgivable’: Russia decries Putin ‘war criminal’ allegation

end of list

“[Russians] will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and will simply spit them out like a gnat that accidentally flew into their mouths,” he said. “I am convinced that such a natural and necessary self-purification of society will only strengthen our country.”

He said the West is using a “fifth column” of traitorous Russians to create civil unrest.

 

ADVERTISING

 

 

“And there is only one goal, I have already spoken about it – the destruction of Russia,” he said.

The speech appeared to be a warning that his authoritarian rule – which had already grown tighter since the invasion began on February 24, shutting down Russian news outlets and arresting protesters – could grow even more repressive.

In a sign of that, Russian law enforcement announced the first known criminal cases under a new law that allows for 15-year prison terms for posting what is deemed to be “false information” about the Ukraine war.

Among those charged was Veronika Belotserkovskaya, a Russian-language cookbook author and blogger living abroad.

 

The Kremlin said on Thursday that many people in Russia were showing themselves to be “traitors” and pointed to those resigning from their jobs and leaving the country.

 

 

 

“In such difficult times…many people show their true colours. Very many people are showing themselves, as we say in Russian, to be traitors,” spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters on a conference call.

The comments were welcomed in parliament by Gennady Zyuganov, head of the nominally opposition Communist party that often backs Putin on important matters of policy.

“We need to defeat the fifth column that is entrenched inside and is ready to stab us in the back any minute,” Zyuganov said. “All these troubles started in 1991 when [modern Russia’s first president Boris] Yeltsin with his clique sold and betrayed the country.”

‘A source of death’

Since Putin ordered a land, air and sea invasion of Ukraine, independent monitoring group OVD-Info has reported more than 14,000 arrests in connection with anti-war actions, according to its website. Of these, more than 170 people were remanded in custody.

 

Russia has demanded that NATO pledge never to admit Ukraine to the alliance or station forces there.

Earlier on Wednesday, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy went before the US Congress via video and, invoking Pearl Harbor and the September 11, 2001 attacks, pleaded with the United States for more weapons and tougher sanctions against Russia, saying: “We need you right now.”

Zelenskyy added Russia “has turned the Ukrainian sky into a source of death”.

 

Although Moscow’s ground advance on the Ukrainian capital appeared largely stalled, Putin said the operation was unfolding “successfully, in strict accordance with pre-approved plans”.

He also decried Western sanctions against Moscow, accusing the West of trying to “squeeze us, to put pressure on us, to turn us into a weak, dependent country”.

No Time
No Time SuperDork
3/17/22 1:00 p.m.

"Self purification " does not sound like a good thing for the Russian people. 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/17/22 1:06 p.m.
No Time said:

"Self purification " does not sound like a good thing for the Russian people. 

I know it's cliche to compare people to Nazis, but that's Nazism

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/17/22 1:09 p.m.

Ok my new plan as hypothetical president of the us. 

 

President to Congress: you heard the man. I want a defense treaty between us, Britain, France and Ukraine on my desk tomorrow. Make it have an effective date 48 hours from signature. 

 

There. Now it's not NATO. It's not attack. It's defence. Putt putt pulls troops out or faces defense from a few of the strongest allies in the world. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/17/22 1:13 p.m.
tuna55 said:

 

Wrote this today to my senators and congressman,

 

Dear Senator Graham,

 

The situation in Ukraine today is not a war which we can safely ignore in a far-off country. This is not a local conflict which we can play into some distorted neoconservative chess match. What is happening today isn't new, nor is it unprecedented. This is the middle of a rebuilding of the Soviet Union, as an instigating and antagonistic force, and we must decide how it ends. The world has taken notice. This movement has galvanized the UN and the EU, and many individual countries into acting. These are positive steps towards a more united world, which we can all hope for to provide long lasting peace.

 

We are verbally supporting Ukraine. We are sending excellent armament to the soldiers of Ukraine. We are sanctioning and being blatantly obvious to show the world the Russian attempts at propaganda. The Biden administration has expertly countered every propaganda attempt at shifting the narrative with real facts, satellite imagery, and firsthand accounts. For the first time in history, the world is seeing the unwashed truth of a war.

 

And we are sad and angry.

 

World War I ended the period where a war was a series of battles to decide local disputes. Where Princes and Kings stood far off to watch their soldiers die for their cause. We entered a period where total war was probable and expected to return. We live in this global connected world today. To be sure, I understand the risks of entering total war with a nuclear power, one who’s seeming incompetence in conventional warfare is balanced with enough modernized nuclear warheads to end human civilization. I know what it would mean to volley long-range missiles over the oceans. The dirty truth is that this is already a global war. We have already been at total war. It seems the hope of Putin is that he goes slowly enough that we won’t fight back. In 2008 it was Georgia, in 2014 Crimea, in 2022 Ukraine. To be sure, these are all non-NATO countries, then again is this strategy? If in a decade a NATO country is the victim of a confusing propaganda war, perhaps one more convincing than today, will NATO respond as its charter requires? Even if nuclear war is a probable result? Or will we capitulate and assume we must let it end to keep the peace on a larger scale. This sounds a lot like kicking the can down for someone else to worry about later. It sounds a lot like the appeasement strategy in 1938. Hitler and Putin are starting to sound a lot alike. Since Putin isn’t blinded by pure hatred, he’s likely even more dangerous over time.

 

So, what do we do? To start with, we must be better prepared to be sneaky. Putin made up all sorts of reasons to go to war. We can’t avoid this, but we can counter. France sent GIGN security forces to protect the embassy in Ukraine. We sent our ambassador home. Why not send the ambassador back, with a navy SEAL team as the security force? Why not send our hospital ships to the Black Sea, accompanied by a few battleships, subs, destroyers and cruisers? Why not send a nice big convoy of medical supplies and food by truck in broad daylight, accompanied by some Bradley Fighting Vehicles, just for protection? In the Korean conflict, we were surprised to hear that the Korean pilots spoke fluent Russian. Can’t we find some Ukrainian pilots who speak English to assist? I’ll help paint the Ukrainian flags on the F15s. These are ideas from a civilian. You are better briefed on what maneuvers we could make, and what their effectiveness is likely to be. Let’s not just sit on the sidelines and watch, pretending that we always play by the rules while we watch Ukraine get decimated.

 

For official actions, several amazing NATO countries are eager to take on refugees. I have a friend in Hungary organizing a shelter right now. We need to establish a humanitarian corridor for civilians to escape. We have all seen videos of Russian troops destroying random people driving away in their personal cars, or just walking down the street. We cannot let this stand, and still claim moral superiority! I demand we establish corridors from the major cities to neighboring NATO countries. We must enforce these corridors with air support and ground support. Spray paint red cross logos on A10 warthogs and M1 battle tanks if we must.

 

We can easily save thousands of lives from this conventional war. We can do this today.

 

We can easily sway this war to push Putin back within his own borders and weaken his imperialistic goals, setting his administration back decades.

 

Or we can continue to offer just enough support to make it look like we care, while innocent lives end daily.

 

The citizens demand we act. Act now.

So I just got around to reading this, you proposed 2 war crimes in here - putting Ukrainian flags on American aircraft and disguising combat vehicles as medical vehicles.

I say if you're going to start WW3 as Zelenskyy effectively asked for in the form of a no-fly-zone yesterday, get all of NATO behind it for a shock-and-awe campaign and do it by the books. Russia's military is looking like an increasingly emaciated paper tiger these days. The only issue is that Putin might actually be crazy enough to (try to) use nuclear weapons in response. Maybe bring along those missile interception systems he's always so worried about?

stroker
stroker UberDork
3/17/22 1:22 p.m.

i readily admit to not following the internal political situation in Ukraine to the finest detail.  I want the poor buggers to get their chance to build whatever country they want (free determination and all that) but it sounds to me like there are some seriously distasteful groups there.  I think the US needs to be extremely careful in tying ourselves to Ukraine with any sort of treaty.  

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
3/17/22 1:37 p.m.
stroker said:

i readily admit to not following the internal political situation in Ukraine to the finest detail.  I want the poor buggers to get their chance to build whatever country they want (free determination and all that) but it sounds to me like there are some seriously distasteful groups there.  I think the US needs to be extremely careful in tying ourselves to Ukraine with any sort of treaty.  

Haven't heard anything about that.  What sort of groups?

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/17/22 1:38 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Actually only one. I am not disguising vehicles by putting red crosses on them, I am intending them for use as escort only, fully knowing that Russia would happily fire on red cross busses.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
3/17/22 1:49 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:
stroker said:

i readily admit to not following the internal political situation in Ukraine to the finest detail.  I want the poor buggers to get their chance to build whatever country they want (free determination and all that) but it sounds to me like there are some seriously distasteful groups there.  I think the US needs to be extremely careful in tying ourselves to Ukraine with any sort of treaty.  

Haven't heard anything about that.  What sort of groups?

Careful, this is where Russian propaganda works really well. It has, especially in 2016, placed just enough doubt and pseudo reporting into the news cycle to make you think -maybe- there is something to that [insert hot button political topic fringe belief here], and pretty soon we;re at each others throats. There has been no proof of any of these groups. There are Nazi, KKK, black panther, and other terrorist groups right here in the US. I am sure they are in every country, and it's likely Ukraine as well. That is not enough to condemn relations with a country (as was the case in 2019). We need to be a lot more open, and defense treaties do not mean you endorse everything that country does. Otherwise, nobody would enter into a treaty with us!

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