Although I admit my interesting in all things loud, shiny and "left turn only" has been decreasing rapidly over the past few years, I kind of think this is an improvement over the old Fusion body.
http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/leisure/2012/01/24/2013-ford-fusion-nascar-sprint-cup-car/?intcmp=features#slide=1
Opinions? BTW - saw the "real thing" at the Detroit Auto show and I honestly believe Ford may have a winner if they don't out-price the average consumer.
Meehhhh? I can't get into that. It's not a Fusion, so it's silly to call it that.
True, in the sense that nothing in NASCAR is based on a production chassis. Does at least have some outward resemblance to the 2013 Fusion though. For reference: http://www.ford.com/cars/fusion/2013/
Yeah, it does. But most of that is stickers. The roof-line, wheel openings, and hood are visually different. But you are right, it looks cool.
Internet for two!
It's a step in the right direction...back to the late 90s, at least.
So who jumped ship at Jaguar and Aston to make that look possible??? 
kazoospec wrote: Opinions? BTW - saw the "real thing" at the Detroit Auto show and I honestly believe Ford may have a winner if they don't out-price the average consumer.
At least the 1.6 EcoBoost is available with a manual.... But I am sure as soon as you want something a little bit better you get the autoshaft up the butt.... Sadly, the 2.0 EcoBoost is 6 spd auto only and the overall car is TOO berkeleyING BIG!!!
Y'all can thank the 1983 (and 1987) Thunderbird for forever killing NASCAR. The actual stock bodies were sooooo much more aerodynamic than anything GM had at the time that they successfully got NASCAR to go to the current template-body, share-0% with production bodies starting in 1989.
As for the topic at hand, the new 13 Fusion (real car) is berkeleying gorgeous and I really, really want my Mom to buy one so I can ogle it. This new NASCAR body (and the new EFI) is a step in the right direction, but NASCAR is still way too far off of it's roots. I understand that they are way too fast to be anything but tube-frame these days, but that's because of the highly developed engines.
If I was Big Bill, this is what I would change the rules to:
Stock unibody, weld-in the cage and crash structures. Stock suspension pick-up points, but fabricated arms allowed (must retain stock geometry, though adjustment can be built in). Everybody runs 17x7 wheels. Brakes are open (though sticking with lugs versus center-locks would be preferred). Use the modern fuel cells, and interior can be completely custom. Body has to be 100% as produced with just the gas filler/vent, roof flaps, rear spoiler, and front splitter added on. Run headlight/taillight blanks. Current lexan/whatever windows.
Now the interesting part, the drivetrain has to be as manufactured (stock block and head casting), but is open to mods (except changing the turbo/adding boost). Sequential transmissions are allowed.
So Dodge would have a traditional V8/RWD NASCAR in the Charger (albeit 4 doors), Ford could run an AWD turbo-6 SHO, and Chevy would be up a creek until they figured something out for their full-size car.
Tell me that wouldn't be super interesting!
As far as I'm concerned, they can just call them "The Ford", The Chevy", The Dodge" and "The Toyota". But even that is just barely accurate.
Woody wrote: As far as I'm concerned, they ca just call them "The Ford engined", The Chevy engined", The Dodge engined" and "The Toyota engined". But even that is just barely accurate.
Accurate. 
Appleseed wrote:Woody wrote: As far as I'm concerned, they ca just call them "The Ford engined", The Chevy engined", The Dodge engined" and "The Toyota engined". But even that is just barely accurate.Accurate.
Nope, not even close. All of the current NASCAR V8's (besides being completely bespoken race-only setups that are hand cast) are based on the Small Block Cleveland Ford engine. They all have a front distributor and the BBC/BBF/SBF/LS1 style heads with staggered intake/exhaust ports.
So they are all Ford's! (SBF motors, 9" rears, Galaxie suspensions) 
Well they do have Chevy truck rear suspension. Or at least they did.
And Ford 9-inch rears.
Javelin, I'm pretty sure that the 89-97 T-Bird stock cars shared the hood and decklid template with the production version. I remember hearing that one of the problems with that design in terms of aero was the "beak" (the hood has a bit of overbite over the front bumper), but the teams couldn't do anything about it.
Will,
I used to have a book about NASCAR in the late 80's that clearly showed the 88 TBird with factory bumpers, header panel, fenders, hood, and decklid next to the new 89 that was all handmade. The hood skin could easily still be factory in 89, but the body finally became a 1-piece hand-made affair for all involved.
I'll buy that. I was only referring to the contour of the pieces, not the actual factory stampings.
they had to run actual factory stampings on the hood, roof, and trunk until the early '00's sometime. the trunks even had to have all the factory bracing in them.
Javelin wrote:Appleseed wrote:Nope, not even close. All of the current NASCAR V8's (besides being completely bespoken race-only setups that are hand cast) are based on the Small Block Cleveland Ford engine. They all have a front distributor and the BBC/BBF/SBF/LS1 style heads with staggered intake/exhaust ports. So they are all Ford's! (SBF motors, 9" rears, Galaxie suspensions)Woody wrote: As far as I'm concerned, they ca just call them "The Ford engined", The Chevy engined", The Dodge engined" and "The Toyota engined". But even that is just barely accurate.Accurate.
Which relates to my side complaint about this particular presentation.
Putting EcoBoost on the side. Yea.
How that relates to the big V8 that will be in the front of it is lost on me.
(nice to see EcoBoost advertised, but on this?)
alfadriver wrote: Which relates to my side complaint about this particular presentation. Putting EcoBoost on the side. Yea. How that relates to the big V8 that will be in the front of it is lost on me. (nice to see EcoBoost advertised, but on this?)
I thought that was pretty weird too. Although a 3.5 EcoBoost powered NASCAR racer might be interesting if we saw what it could do when you turn the boost up.
now if only Ford would make a big coupe' out if it in real life.
MadScientistMatt wrote:alfadriver wrote: Which relates to my side complaint about this particular presentation. Putting EcoBoost on the side. Yea. How that relates to the big V8 that will be in the front of it is lost on me. (nice to see EcoBoost advertised, but on this?)I thought that was pretty weird too. Although a 3.5 EcoBoost powered NASCAR racer might be interesting if we saw what it could do when you turn the boost up.
(couldn't make enough power...)
novaderrik wrote: they had to run actual factory stampings on the hood, roof, and trunk until the early '00's sometime. the trunks even had to have all the factory bracing in them.
I used to have an 89 TBird NASCAR decklid hanging up in the shop, and it most certainly did not have the factory bracing.
mguar wrote: You and I can take pleasure in our ability to Row our cars but realize manual transmissions are about to go the way of setting points and rebuilding carburetors.
I don't but that. There's still many, many cars that come in manual-only in the US (and over 60% of cars sold in Europe are still manuals).
Javelin wrote: Y'all can thank the 1983 (and 1987) Thunderbird for forever killing NASCAR. The actual stock bodies were sooooo much more aerodynamic than anything GM had at the time that they successfully got NASCAR to go to the current template-body, share-0% with production bodies starting in 1989. As for the topic at hand, the new 13 Fusion (real car) is berkeleying *gorgeous* and I really, really want my Mom to buy one so I can ogle it. This new NASCAR body (and the new EFI) is a step in the right direction, but NASCAR is still way too far off of it's roots. I understand that they are way too fast to be anything but tube-frame these days, but that's because of the highly developed engines. If I was Big Bill, this is what I would change the rules to: Stock unibody, weld-in the cage and crash structures. Stock suspension pick-up points, but fabricated arms allowed (must retain stock geometry, though adjustment can be built in). Everybody runs 17x7 wheels. Brakes are open (though sticking with lugs versus center-locks would be preferred). Use the modern fuel cells, and interior can be completely custom. Body has to be 100% as produced with just the gas filler/vent, roof flaps, rear spoiler, and front splitter added on. Run headlight/taillight blanks. Current lexan/whatever windows. Now the interesting part, the drivetrain has to be as manufactured (stock block and head casting), but is open to mods (except changing the turbo/adding boost). Sequential transmissions are allowed. So Dodge would have a traditional V8/RWD NASCAR in the Charger (albeit 4 doors), Ford could run an AWD turbo-6 SHO, and Chevy would be up a creek until they figured something out for their full-size car. Tell me that wouldn't be super interesting!
I like this. 
Javelin wrote:Appleseed wrote:Nope, not even close. All of the current NASCAR V8's (besides being completely bespoken race-only setups that are hand cast) are based on the Small Block Cleveland Ford engine. They all have a front distributor and the BBC/BBF/SBF/LS1 style heads with staggered intake/exhaust ports. So they are all Ford's! (SBF motors, 9" rears, Galaxie suspensions)Woody wrote: As far as I'm concerned, they ca just call them "The Ford engined", The Chevy engined", The Dodge engined" and "The Toyota engined". But even that is just barely accurate.Accurate.
Ford says the FR9 has nothing in common with the 351. I heard that Toyoto used a truck block as a base for their engine. Dodge built two engines. NASCAR said no to the Hemi.
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