Home buying questions--inspections and attorneys

Oh, and also, shop rates. Quotes from different lawyers and title insurance companies for my last closing varied by over $1000 on a less than $150,000 sale. Phone calls are your friend.

I agree with Margie, get a lawyer who does mostly or only real estate. While you may save a few bucks getting a run-of-the-mill lawyer, mistakes when it comes to real estate can be very costly.

Just as an example, when I bought my house in the UK the lawyer I used only did real estate. The other side was trying to pull some shenanigans and he sorted them out pretty quickly because he knew who to talk to and who to yell at.

Mind you, the other side was so kosher that they somehow "forgot" to pay off the second or at least get the lien from the second released (I think it may have turned out to be the latter) and he got that sorted out sharpish. That was definitely an area where my lawyer's experience helped massively.

BTW, that second was £40k on a £150k house. Back then that was about $80k...

My inspector was Dave Yost: http://qbinspect.com/ He was recommended by the real estate agent that sold my condo. Note that while I thought he was really good, I have never had an inspection before so I have nothing to compare to. I walked the whole house with him and he answered any questions I had (he encourages this), and I got a pretty huge document (60+ pages) afterwards too. Comparatively, the inspector that the people who bought my place gave them a 2 page document, and he missed some stuff that I know was wrong. But still, YMMV.

And maybe SVreX can comment on the differences between ASHI and NAHI, because I have no idea.

In reply to mtn:

Attorney here. You absolutely want an attorney who has some background in real estate. Maybe not a "real estate attorney", per se, but someone who has knowledge and experience of closings. The law is complicated, and the days of the "Atticus Finch country lawyer" who does a little bit of everything are rapidly ending.

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Oh, and also, shop rates. Quotes from different lawyers and title insurance companies for my last closing varied by over $1000 on a less than $150,000 sale. Phone calls are your friend.

Also very true. Like any other service, lawyers will charge what they think they can get. Also, don't let them tell you their rates are not negotiable- knowledge is power and if you know what the market is paying for a service, everything is negotiable.

I hope that the dump I bought helps you avoid the same issue.

Many folks here are far more knowledgeable than I, but I will offer some thing which I wish I would have checked specifically before buying, I went with the inspector and followed him around, asking questions. I don't know a ton about houses, but I will tell you things which would have helped me specifically.

I would have checked for leaks in the house and in the plumbing by watching the water meter spin. I just learned that this was a thing and we found a leak in the irrigation system which had been causing our water bill to be super high while offering no symptoms. You just find the meter, watch it, and then shut stuff off to see if it stops to isolate the leak. That would have saved me about $75 in water, $10 in PVC and about four hours of my time digging holes in the mud in the summer heat (it was approximately 4,300 F).

I am not sure how, but I'd either use a hose to check the windows or wait for a rainy day for the inspection. It rained inside readily at our place.

Pull out the appliances. Our guy did not look behind the fridge. If he had, we would have noticed the water damage. Look under the dishwasher, behind the washing machine etc.

Open and close all of the windows. Our guy actually found an issue here and it was fixed ahead of time.

Use a moisture meter everywhere. They are like $30, and you would genuinely be surprised at what your hands cannot feel. All of my toilets were leaking. My guy noticed -0- of them.

Don't fall in love. In the same way you should bring a naysayer with you when you're buying a car, you ten to fall into the trap of ignoring issues since you really like the house. I kept telling myself "These owners seem really nice, they have two kids, they live here 100% of the time, how bad can it really be?". Don't think that way, it's like poison.

I hope you have a better purchase than I did!

BTW, moving a fridge (or any other furniture) is beyond the scope of what Home Inspectors Standards of Practice would call for.

And closing (or opening) the valve at the meter is also beyond the SOP.

Doesn't mean they can't, just means they are not required to. (And most don't).

I'm not sharing this stuff to be argumentative. I am sharing it because MOST of the dissatisfactions with Home Inspectors stem from a basic misunderstanding of what they do. Home buyers have expectations that are not in line with the services that HI's perform.

SVreX wrote: BTW, moving a fridge (or any other furniture) is beyond the scope of what Home Inspectors Standards of Practice would call for. And closing (or opening) the valve at the meter is also beyond the SOP. Doesn't mean they can't, just means they are not required to. (And most don't). I'm not sharing this stuff to be argumentative. I am sharing it because MOST of the dissatisfactions with Home Inspectors stem from a basic misunderstanding of what they do. Home buyers have expectations that are not in line with the services that HI's perform.

To clarify, and not be argumentative either, I am recommending the buyer do these things during the home inspection, and not intending to say that my home inspector should have done these things as part of what he was paid to do.

In reply to slowride:

ASHI, NAHI, and Inter-NACHI are professional member associations for home inspectors. They certify the performance of their members, offer training, and provide Standards of Procedures.

They perform similar functions. ASHI is the largest and most recognized.

Some states require licensing. Some require certain training and certifications. Other states (like GA) only require that you breath oxygen.

Membership in an association provides a basis for equal procedural standards, and adds some credibility to an inspector. Failure to adhere to agreed upon SOPs could get an Inspector disciplined, or risk his membership status, certification, or license.

Membership alone (without references, etc) does not tell much more than they paid their fee and passed a test. But LACK of membership means they adhere to no standard at all- AKA fly-by-night.

In reply to tuna55:

I agree, although I wouldn't change valves. I'd ask the owner to do it. Rarely used valves are prone to breaking, and the liability would then be on you.

SVreX wrote: In reply to tuna55: I agree, although I wouldn't change valves. I'd ask the owner to do it. Rarely used valves are prone to breaking, and the liability would then be on you.

Good point. I had not thought of that.

I suppose you could just view the meter with the house fixtures off. It wouldn't allow you to isolate any issue you found, but with the fixtures off it should be -o- flow.

Just scheduled one with an ASHI inspector. He was a former Electrical Engineer, and is a fully ASHI certified inspector. Hopefully that means something.

I was only able to find one "deal-killer" in the area, but the reviews on him were so bad overall that I suspected he'd crossed the line to fear-mongering. Countless stories of the guy citing flood damage where there was only a leak from an appliance; numerous reviews saying that he didn't have a moisture meter, and just general overstatement and even fabrication.

All that would have been fine and dandy if he didn't cost 3x as much as the comparable's.

tuna55 wrote: I would have checked for leaks in the house and in the plumbing by watching the water meter spin. I just learned that this was a thing and we found a leak in the irrigation system which had been causing our water bill to be super high while offering no symptoms.

This is an excellent idea that all of us can do today at our own places of residence. I will for sure.

I'll be doing it to save money, but I gotta believe there is significant clean water waste from all the houses in america. Why don't I ever see this idea on the stuff that says "save water, take shorter showers and shut off the water while brushing your teeth"? Seems like fixing an unknown irrigation leak would save the same amount of water as having about 100 people take a shorter shower.

Turn off all your water and make sure your water meter stops.... GENIUS!!

EDIT: I just did this and looks like I am good. My meter looks like an odometer but has one dial that measures to the x.001 cubic feet of water, and with some quick testing with the faucet on the slop sink right next to the meter I could see even a very small drip almost right away.

I guess I should also try to do this with the gas and electric, though it won't be as useful for electric since that is more of a game of isolating devices. And the gas better not be berking leaking.

Robbie wrote:

tuna55 wrote: I would have checked for leaks in the house and in the plumbing by watching the water meter spin. I just learned that this was a thing and we found a leak in the irrigation system which had been causing our water bill to be super high while offering no symptoms.

This is an excellent idea that all of us can do today at our own places of residence. I will for sure. I'll be doing it to save money, but I gotta believe there is significant clean water waste from all the houses in america. Why don't I ever see this idea on the stuff that says "save water, take shorter showers and shut off the water while brushing your teeth"? Seems like fixing an unknown irrigation leak would save the same amount of water as having about 100 people take a shorter shower. Turn off all your water and make sure your water meter stops.... GENIUS!!

I know a plumber and he told me that when I was asking about general house stuff and I felt really really stupid for not knowing that was something I could do so easily.

The realtor we were putting an offer through suggested 3 Home Inspectors.

We went with someone who got good reviews on Yelp and was not one of those three.

Bretton came out within 2 days of scheduling, couldn't get access to the crawl space, and came out again when we could get access. He sat and bullE36 M3ted for an easy 2 hours after doing both inspections, and suggested a great local contractor to help us do an estimate for repairs. He did a huge document with lots of pictures, and told us stuff that he thought was serious and stuff that was not.

Even though we walked away with no house and $500 less in our pocket, I was pretty happy to have supported our Home Inspector and know I'll go with him again.

mtn wrote: Just scheduled one with an ASHI inspector. He was a former Electrical Engineer, and is a fully ASHI certified inspector. Hopefully that means something. I was only able to find one "deal-killer" in the area, but the reviews on him were so bad overall that I suspected he'd crossed the line to fear-mongering. Countless stories of the guy citing flood damage where there was only a leak from an appliance; numerous reviews saying that he didn't have a moisture meter, and just general overstatement and even fabrication. All that would have been fine and dandy if he didn't cost 3x as much as the comparable's.

Excellent. Good approach.

Trans_Maro wrote: Be glad you're not buying out here on the westcoast of Canada. ... I wouldn't bother with a home inspection again unless the lender demanded it.

Here in the bay area, houses have been selling "0/0/0" for a while now. 0 day contingency for inspection, 0 day contingency for appraisal, and 0 day contingency for loan. It's nuts, and not a good thing for sellers. If the buyer comes back with a lawsuit, you want to be able to say that he had an opportunity do an inspection and cancel the sale and chose not to.

As for getting an inspection done, I'd definitely do it on any house I bought. On the current house he pointed out the Federal Pacific electric panels that are known fire hazards which I wouldn't have known about otherwise. It didn't influence the sale (once again, crazy bay area), but it let me know what work I wanted to get done before we moved in.