1 2 3 4
EdenPrime
EdenPrime Reader
1/3/12 9:19 a.m.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45855282/ns/business-autos/t/honda-sued-over-mileage-small-claims-court/#.TwMcRfIlpBk

TORRANCE, Calif. — A woman who expected her 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid to be her dream car wants Honda to pay for not delivering the high mileage it promised. But rather than joining other owners in a class-action lawsuit, she is going solo in small claims court, an unusual move that could offer a bigger payout if it doesn't backfire.

A trial is set for Tuesday afternoon in Torrance, where American Honda Motor Co. has its West Coast headquarters.

Heather Peters says her car never came close to getting the promised 50 miles per gallon, and as its battery deteriorated, it was getting only 30 mpg. She wants Honda to pay for her trouble and the extra money she spent on gas.

Peters, a former lawyer who long ago gave up her bar card, has devised a unique legal vehicle to drive Honda into court — a small claims suit that could cost the company up to $10,000 in her case and every other individual case filed in the same manner.

If other claimants follow her lead, she estimates Honda could be forced to pay $2 billion in damages. No high-priced lawyers are involved and the process is streamlined.

"I would not be surprised if she won," said Richard Cupp Jr., who teaches product liability law at Pepperdine University. "The judge will have a lot of discretion and the evidentiary standards are relaxed in small claims court."

A win for Peters could encourage others to take this simplified route, he said.

"There's an old saying among lawyers," Cupp said. "If you want real justice, go to small claims court."

But he questioned whether her move, supported by publicity on the Internet and elsewhere, would start a groundswell of such suits. He suggested that few people would want to expend the time and energy that Peters has put into her suit when the potential payoff is as little as a few thousand dollars.

Peters opted out of a series of class-action lawsuits filed on behalf of similar Honda hybrid owners when she saw a proposed settlement would give owners no more than $200 cash and a rebate of $500 or $1,000 to purchase a new Honda. Advertise | AdChoices

The settlement would give trial lawyers $8.5 million, Peters said.

"I was shocked," she said. "I wrote to Honda and said I would take $7,500, which was then the limit on small claims in California. It is going up to $10,000 in 2012."

She said she also offered to trade her hybrid for a comparable car with a manual transmission, the only thing she trusted at that point.

'I filed the suit' "I wrote the letter and I said, 'If you don't respond, I will file a suit in small claims court.' I gave them my phone number," she said. "They never called, and I filed the suit."

She said she also sent emails to top executives at Honda with no response.

Aaron Jacoby, a Los Angeles attorney who heads the automotive industry group at the Arent Fox law firm, said Peters' strategy, while intriguing, is unlikely to change the course of class-action litigation.

"In the class-action, the potential claimants don't have to do anything," Jacoby said. "It's designed to be an efficient way for a court to handle multiple claims of the same type."

He also questioned her criticism of class-action lawyers for the fees they receive. Jacoby, who handles such cases, said lawyers who take on the multiple clients involved do extensive work — sometimes spanning years — and are not in it just for money.

"They're representing the underdog and they believe they are performing a public duty," he said. "Many of these people could not get lawyers to represent them individually."

American Honda's offices were closed for the holidays and no one could be reached for comment. Peters said the company has tried five times to delay the trial but each effort was rebuffed.

The upside of Peters' unusual move, she says, is that litigants are not allowed to have lawyers argue in small claims court in California. This means any award will not be diluted by attorney's fees. Honda would have to appoint a non-lawyer employee to argue its side in court. Advertise | AdChoices

"If I prevail and get $10,000, they have 200,000 of these cars out there. That's a potential payout of $2 billion," she said.

While she doubts that all other owners will take the same route, she suggests the penalty could be substantial for the company if a large percentage of the owners file individually.

A judge in San Diego County is due to rule in March on whether to approve Honda's latest class action settlement offer. Members of the class have until Feb. 11 to accept or decline the settlement.

Peters has launched a website, DontSettleWithHonda.org, urging others to take the small claims route.

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand Dork
1/3/12 9:29 a.m.

This is clearly awesome. The mechanisms for class action suits are broken.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc Reader
1/3/12 9:32 a.m.

I'm not typically a "sue the bastards" type of guy but I really like this.

Drewsifer
Drewsifer Dork
1/3/12 9:42 a.m.

I can kind of get behind this. While everyone knows estimated MPG are very optimistic, I think it's a good thing if we could start making companies be more honest about them.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
1/3/12 9:47 a.m.

I have never achieved the stated MPG of any car I have ever owned. Look out Chrysler, that '78 Cordoba you sold me is about to bite you!

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/3/12 9:49 a.m.

The EPA ratings are a bogus sham to say "Hey look! I get 40+ mpg!". But if you read the fine print it is something like "Real world numbers will differ. You may have to resort to shutting down the engine while doing 120mph downhill with a 50mph tailwind for more then 3 miles and you MUST tailgate the semi ahead of you."

Although I must say my buddy's Cruze with the 6spd gets what the sticker says on the freeway, 38mpg. And that is around here were the roads aren't: A- flat or B- straight.

EdenPrime
EdenPrime Reader
1/3/12 9:49 a.m.

I also find it funny how people are so ga-ga over the 40mpg, 44mpg, whatever advertised when i've gotten about 50mpg in my Celica. And no worries about batteries or any kind of strange hybrid synergy system.

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/3/12 9:52 a.m.

Oh and even though they "revised" my 95 Dakota's EPA numbers, I can beat the sticker number, but not by much.

iceracer
iceracer SuperDork
1/3/12 9:57 a.m.

In the last three vehicles I have owned, I have never had a problem exceeding the EPA rating without really trying.

The mileage rating on hybrids is confusing. I had to explain to my grandson, who lives out in the boonies and has to drive for everything, that he won't see the city mpg.

15 minutes of fame and an easy 10K ?

EvanR
EvanR Reader
1/3/12 9:58 a.m.

I have yet to own a car that does as poorly as the EPA suggests. The current ride, an '05 Scion xB, is rated something like 29/31. Around town with the a/c off, I get 36. Significantly worse on the highway with a headwind - the thing is aerodynamic as a barn door and geared for efficiency at 100km/h - but I can still get 32mpg under those conditions.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/3/12 10:01 a.m.

I'm actually getting worse in the Jeep than EPA says, apparently.

14mpg city, 19mpg highway, 16mpg combined.

Really gets more like 13mpg city, just got 15.1mpg on the last combined tank, and the best i've EVER gotten out of a 100% highway tank was 19.1mpg.

Yuck.

Starting to think a cold air intake and some exhaust work might be needed to help a little?

jrw1621
jrw1621 SuperDork
1/3/12 10:07 a.m.

I would think her claim is not against Honda but rather against The EPA. I believe that Honda does not provide the number to The EPA, rather, The EPA provides the number to Honda. I could be wrong.

As mentioned above, the changes and re-ratings were done by The EPA when The EPA changed their methods for testing. I believe that the methods used are still designed for petroleum fuels and as such do a poor job of gauging electric vehicles such as the Volt or Leaf.

EDIT: To answers my question above, it seems that the manufacturer conducts the EPA's test on pre-production models and self reports the findings to the EPA.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.

I still think she will have to prove deception in getting to the numbers.
Was the testing done to the EPA standard?
If yes, the error seems to reside with the EPA standard.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
1/3/12 10:11 a.m.

But Honda uses those numbers to advertise.....

jrw1621
jrw1621 SuperDork
1/3/12 10:15 a.m.
z31maniac wrote: But Honda uses those numbers to advertise.....

They also us JD Powers results which may have data to back their answers but does not make me necessarily believe them.

Cotton
Cotton Dork
1/3/12 10:16 a.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'm actually getting worse in the Jeep than EPA says, apparently. 14mpg city, 19mpg highway, 16mpg combined. Really gets more like 13mpg city, just got 15.1mpg on the last combined tank, and the best i've EVER gotten out of a 100% highway tank was 19.1mpg. Yuck. Starting to think a cold air intake and some exhaust work might be needed to help a little?

My buddy and I both averaged 19 average mixed driving with our 99 XJs. Once I lifted mine it dropped to 14. That's when we stopped uising it as a DD. I keep meaning to get it re-geared, but always find something else to spend the $$ on. Another friend gets similar mileage as you in his XJ and we're trying to figure out what's wrong with it.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
1/3/12 10:18 a.m.
jrw1621 wrote:
z31maniac wrote: But Honda uses those numbers to advertise.....
They also us JD Powers results which may have data to back their answers but does not make me necessarily believe them.

My point is, regardless of who generates the numbers, if Honda is going to present them as "fact," they should be legally required to stand behind them.

Or don't use them to sell your product.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
1/3/12 10:19 a.m.

The EPA numbers given to any vehicle are not intended to say you WILL get this mileage, they are a way of comparing different vehicle's apples to apples, since all vehicles are tested the same way.
The variety of answers in this thread suggests that some people get less and some get more mileage than the vehicle was rated at. You know, "your mileage may vary.."

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/3/12 10:21 a.m.

Here are my comparisons:

1996 Ford Ranger Pickup 2WD 1995 Dodge Dakota Pickup 2WD 1994 Ford Ranger Pickup 2WD

2.3 L, 4 cyl, Manual 5-spd 3.9 L, 6 cyl, Automatic 4-spd 4.0 L, 6 cyl, Manual 5-spd

21 Combined 19 City 24 Highway 16 Combined 15 City 19 Highway 18 Combined 16 City 22 Highway

The 96 Ranger I had and still have from NEW, barely got the 24 listed.

Anyone what to trade, almost rust free Dakota for a Ranger???

Bobzilla
Bobzilla SuperDork
1/3/12 10:21 a.m.
EvanR wrote: I have yet to own a car that does as *poorly* as the EPA suggests. The current ride, an '05 Scion xB, is rated something like 29/31. Around town with the a/c off, I get 36. Significantly worse on the highway with a headwind - the thing is aerodynamic as a barn door and geared for efficiency at 100km/h - but I can still get 32mpg under those conditions.

I had one. My 2000 Sonoma sucked. Everything else has been above. Some by a large margin.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
1/3/12 10:23 a.m.

I routinely beat the EPA numbers with my 350Z, my new Frontier doesn't come close to the EPA numbers.

Anyone know what speed, the "highway" mpg is calculated with?

iceracer
iceracer SuperDork
1/3/12 10:24 a.m.

The window sticker from my 2011 Fiesta states Highway MPG 38. expected range for most drivers is 31 to 45 mpg.

I feel disappointed when it drops to 38.

jrw1621
jrw1621 SuperDork
1/3/12 10:25 a.m.

Note that she has a 2006 Civic Hybrid.
The EPA testing standards were changed for the 2008 model year.
A 2006 Civic Hybrid was rated at 49/50/51
For 2008 that changed to 40/42/45

2006 Prius: 60/55/51
2008 Prius: 48/46/45

Changes in testing.

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/3/12 10:28 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac:

No wind resistance.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 SuperDork
1/3/12 10:30 a.m.

And this people is what is wrong with America today. I'm sorry but I can't back this because someone actually believed the MPG ratings, plus aren't those MPG ratings done by the EPA or some other organization and not the manufacturer?

Still, this sue happy America is ridiculous and only feeds into the sense of entitlement for people and the laziness of "I don't need to work hard, I'll just let something happen to me and then I'll sue for someone's millions."

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
1/3/12 10:31 a.m.
Ranger50 wrote: In reply to z31maniac: No wind resistance.

Oh are they doing it on a dyno or something, yay for real world testing.

The only time I've seen the onboard compy tell me I was getting 19mpg on the highway, I was doing 50mph through construction.

At 75-80 on the turnpike is usually says around 14.5.

1 2 3 4

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
FEbMS7kCDXKElZjPju4KH2j6cKdYO4wJYtJOItVJoddrGkke2BJyAYZVA5Wk8KB9