How do I help my alcoholic friend

Lots of  real world life experience here so I thought I would ask. He is a high functioning alcoholic managing a large branch of a very large corporation and is responsible for around 200 people. When he is not working he is drinking. He is depressed, very overweight and completely unmotivated to help himself. He went to rehab only after a close call (drunk driving with family in the car) and was back to drinking three weeks later. He is about to lose his wife and his job and I expect then he will have little to live for. I want to help him but I have no idea how. He refuses to go to AA. Anyone ever deal with this and figure out a way to intercede or am I stuck just watching? 

I've dealt with a friend like this.  You can try and convince him to get help but sadly in most cases they need to hit bottom and decide on their own they are ready for help.  Hopefully no damage is done when that finally happens.

Does he not want to go to AA because he believes it won't work for him, or because he "isn't an alcoholic"?

Listen but do NOT enable. They have to fail. Clearly has not learned a thing through rehab nor sees a problem.

Tough love is tough.

Having watched this happen to my father, I unfortunately agree with the above.  

Ranger50 said:

Listen but do NOT enable. They have to fail. Clearly has not learned a thing through rehab nor sees a problem.

Tough love is tough.

 This. ^ It's going to be frustrating, maddening, and painful to watch, I'm afraid. Edit: If he admits to it and asks for help, then research it and see what you can do.

I hear good things about AA but he says it is religious and not for him. Not sure if that is true but if he will not go for his wife he will not go for me. I think you all are confirming my thoughts. I will have to watch the death spiral. The thing that I cannot wrap my head around is that he knows he has a problem, he knows the ultimate result, and yet he will not help himself. I guess I would have to be addicted to understand the mindset. 

Be blunt with him if you care.  Talk to him about it.  Either way dont just stand by. 
 

long story short-ish, my sister just died of liver failure in november of 2023 from alcoholism.  Being in the liver transplant area of the hospital is something more drinkers should see. End stage liver failure isnt pretty. 
 

people around my sister kept her issues a secret. That secret killed her. 
 

dont sit back and watch, dont accept them lying to themselves or others about their drinking.  By the time it puts you in the hospital, there is not much that can be done other than to fade away. 

In reply to TJL (Forum Supporter) :

As long as you don't enable. Wanna be do gooders enabled my brother right into the grave.

In reply to NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) :

I would never suggest enabling. Thats what people did by choosing to ignore the issue rather than standing up to it. 

i used to drink too much. I never wanted anyone to talk to me about it or call me out for it. And nobody did. That allowed me to spend virtually all of my 20's drinking. I decided myself right before my 30th birthday that it had to stop. And i stopped it. Been 12 years since i drank alcohol. Life is much improved since then. 

AA may or may not be religious, depending on the group and your own personal views .

If he needs someone to help get him to a meeting, I have a friend back there who has been through the program and might be able to help.

You can't help someone that does not to help themselves. There is nothing you can say that changes the situation, it just makes you frustrated, not them. He will always have an excuse until he decides it's not how he wants to live. 

In reply to TJL (Forum Supporter) :

That sounded like it was directed at you. It wasn't. By "you don't enable" I meant people, anyone, etc.

In reply to NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) :

All good, thanks. 
 

ignoring problems does not fix them. 
Be a pain in his ass if he does not want to listen.  Make him uncomfortable with drinking. Tell him how its going to be. 
With alcohol abuse, as your liver turns into scar tissue rather than functioning liver, it cannot clean your blood so your iodine levels go up. It makes your brain cloudy and when it gets high enough, brain damage results. Your blood platelet numbers drop and you have issues healing and bleeding. As your liver becomes scar tissue, it can no longer process blood fast enough. You get "varices", too much pressure built up and start to rupture veins to relieve the pressure.   See if he wants his family watching him bleed out while he is delirious and heading into a coma. 

My dad was a functioning alcoholic for most of my life.

What finally got him was complications after a hip replacement, due to a bad fall. 

We hadn't been close since I moved out at 17 because I couldn't stand being around him anymore.

Lots of guys have memories of doing fun stuff with their father. I don't. 

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

The thing that I cannot wrap my head around is that he knows he has a problem, he knows the ultimate result, and yet he will not help himself. 

I'm betting he knows he has a problem but thinks he can get it under control himself without help.

AA is weird.  Its right for some people, but not for others.  I (outsider) have a lot of problems with it.  Sadly in the world we live in, it is basically considered the only option.  Many (most?) rehab places just hammer AA into those they are helping.

Sorry, don't want to derail the thread totally with AA discussion.

Watch the spiral, be there to help if he's ready, but probably more importantly, be there for his family if you can.  Make sure he doesn't hurt anyone else if E36 M3 gets bad.

TJL (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) :

ignoring problems does not fix them. 
Be a pain in his ass if he does not want to listen.  Make him uncomfortable with drinking. Tell him how its going to be. 
With alcohol abuse, as your liver turns into scar tissue rather than functioning liver, it cannot clean your blood so your iodine levels go up. It makes your brain cloudy and when it gets high enough, brain damage results. Your blood platelet numbers drop and you have issues healing and bleeding. As your liver becomes scar tissue, it can no longer process blood fast enough. You get "varices", too much pressure built up and start to rupture veins to relieve the pressure.   See if he wants his family watching him bleed out while he is delirious and heading into a coma. 

 

This will only serve to make you crazy. He knows this stuff and more, he does not care, and someone repeating it will not change that fact. It's a waste of your time and energy until he asks for help. 

 I watched a former boss run down this path until it killed him. I watched my youngest brother do the same. 

Until they come to grips with the intent behind their need to drink you'll just frustrate yourself trying to change them. 

You can be there for him if he asks for help, but otherwise there's not much more you can do.

To be clear, he did kind of ask for help. I knew he went to rehab because I was the only person he told other than his wife. But I was pretty sure that he had backslid so I asked him how he was doing. and he collapsed on me. That's kind of hard as a guy to listen to from someone who is known to everyone as the big tough smart guy who solves all the problems and makes all the money. So that's why I asked the question.

I think since he went ahead and laid this on me, I am going to try and get pushy and bully him into taking some steps. Not sure I really have the temperament for that but what the heck. Either I lose him as a friend now or I lose him as a friend later.

I thought about this some more after reading some replies and responses and what I see this boils down to is he refuses to "lose control".  Nobody wants to give up control of their life, even their addictions or vises. This will always be the stumbling block towards progress. You cannot get around it. This applies to everything in life. 
I tell my overdoses or etoh's that dragged in by ems/police, I tell them "I'm not going to tell you to quit. You already see what you are doing to yourself. So how about reducing little by little?" Am I wasting my breath? Probably, but I can't in good faith say nothing as they walk out of the ER as an AMA....

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

To be clear, he did kind of ask for help. I knew he went to rehab because I was the only person he told other than his wife. But I was pretty sure that he had backslid so I asked him how he was doing. and he collapsed on me. That's kind of hard as a guy to listen to from someone who is known to everyone as the big tough smart guy who solves all the problems and makes all the money. So that's why I asked the question.

I think since he went ahead and laid this on me, I am going to try and get pushy and bully him into taking some steps. Not sure I really have the temperament for that but what the heck. Either I lose him as a friend now or I lose him as a friend later.

You just described what progress looks like. He came to you.  Why? How do you keep that going? Are you sure you want to?

I imagine that going cold turkey for a lifelong drinker is like being a teddy bear and having the stuffing pulled out. What you gonna replace it with that will do the job? How do you get through those early days, weeks, months or years until you replace that void?  There has to be a positive feed-back loop. As a friend, all you can really do is reflect the progress and hope it takes. 

Be aware that drowning people often take rescuers down with them. So be mindful of your  own needs if you take this on.

A doctor who does podcasts I listen to specializes in addiction and is constantly recommending Al-anon to those close to alcoholics. 
 

https://al-anon.org

I'll let others with more direct experience speak more, but from my observations, AA is very much religious.  The whole thing is built around surrendering to the "higher power".

In reply to Duke :

"A" higher power. Don't read too much into it.

Try to find a facility that does aversion therapy.  Schick/Shadal used to but they closed.

It really works. 

Best of luck to you and your friend. 

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

To be clear, he did kind of ask for help. I knew he went to rehab because I was the only person he told other than his wife. But I was pretty sure that he had backslid so I asked him how he was doing. and he collapsed on me. That's kind of hard as a guy to listen to from someone who is known to everyone as the big tough smart guy who solves all the problems and makes all the money. So that's why I asked the question.

I think since he went ahead and laid this on me, I am going to try and get pushy and bully him into taking some steps. Not sure I really have the temperament for that but what the heck. Either I lose him as a friend now or I lose him as a friend later.

Ah ok, that was not clear earlier.  That is positive.

I'm not sure bullying is the right approach, but I'm sure different things work with different people.  I'd start by going back to him and saying "Lets talk about how I can help".  Maybe he needs someone to talk to before resorting to alcohol, maybe he needs someone to go with him to his first meeting or therapy, maybe he needs accountability.  I'm betting many people would rather celebrate sobriety than get shamed for their failures.