How GM could save themselves in 5 easy steps:

Salanis wrote: Mmm... no... because making the best product in the world does you no good if people don't want to buy it.

The above makes no sense. None at all. Do you work for a living? If people don't want to buy your best product in the world, then it is not really the "best" product in the world.

If you make the best product in world, implicit in that is that it nails the 4 P's of marketing...

* Product
* Price
* Place (distribution)
* Promotion

then people will buy it.

Product 1st.

In other news.. While GM gives itself a prostate massage over the VOLT. Ford gets to work. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/ford-michigan-truck-plan-small-cars.php

ignorant wrote: [A bunch of stuff...] Product 1st.

I think we agree but are saying the same thing two different ways.

I'm thinking of it as being about people because I find it makes more sense to identify a market and then generate a product that market will want to buy, rather than creating a product and then figuring out what market will want to buy it.

In both cases, you need a product and you need people to buy it.

ignorant wrote: In other news.. While GM gives itself a prostate massage over the VOLT. Ford gets to work. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/ford-michigan-truck-plan-small-cars.php

You're not really patting Ford on the back for retooling one plant by 2010 at the same time as ridiculing GM about the Volt, are you? Wouldn't GM be the company working harder in your comparison, since the Volt is also supposed to come out in 2010 and requires WAY more work than retooling one plant? I guess I don't understand why you're comparing Ford's retooling to GM's Volt, seems kind of silly.

Bryce

Nashco wrote:

ignorant wrote: In other news.. While GM gives itself a prostate massage over the VOLT. Ford gets to work. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/ford-michigan-truck-plan-small-cars.php

You're not really patting Ford on the back for retooling one plant by 2010 at the same time as ridiculing GM about the Volt, are you? Wouldn't GM be the company working harder in your comparison, since the Volt is also supposed to come out in 2010 and requires WAY more work than retooling one plant? I guess I don't understand why you're comparing Ford's retooling to GM's Volt, seems kind of silly. Bryce

Lets see.

Ford - Bringing over proven product that will go right to sale with multiple models. They will bring good MPG and be familiar to buyers. They are also retooling a plant in the United States. Minimal investment with a good reward.

GM - developing one halo product with new technology. It is unknown how americans will react and how good the quality will be. prototype? Seen it? I'm betting on GM missing the deadline. The car not being 1/2 the hype and them spending 4 to 5 times what ford is on their development.

So If I was a betting man.. I'd put my money on Ford.

ignorant wrote:

Nashco wrote:

ignorant wrote: In other news.. While GM gives itself a prostate massage over the VOLT. Ford gets to work. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/ford-michigan-truck-plan-small-cars.php

You're not really patting Ford on the back for retooling one plant by 2010 at the same time as ridiculing GM about the Volt, are you? Wouldn't GM be the company working harder in your comparison, since the Volt is also supposed to come out in 2010 and requires WAY more work than retooling one plant? I guess I don't understand why you're comparing Ford's retooling to GM's Volt, seems kind of silly. Bryce

Lets see. Ford - Bringing over proven product that will go right to sale with multiple models. They will bring good MPG and be familiar to buyers. They are also retooling a plant in the United States. Minimal investment with a good reward. GM - developing one halo product with new technology. It is unknown how americans will react and how good the quality will be. prototype? Seen it? I'm betting on GM missing the deadline. The car not being 1/2 the hype and them spending 4 to 5 times what ford is on their development. So If I was a betting man.. I'd put my money on Ford.

Yeah, but you act as though GM isn't doing any retooling, instead they're hoping that a one shot wonder solves their problems. That's why I don't get the comparison, because GM is ALSO retooling for small cars in addition to their efforts with the Volt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/business/22auto.html?ref=business

Of the $500 million that G.M. is investing in the United States so it can build the Cruze, $350 million will be spent retooling the Lordstown plant, which opened 42 years ago and is the highest-volume plant in the world with one assembly line.

Bryce

I just see the ROI on fords investment to be much higher than gm's. that is a win

$75M to retool ford plant < $350M to retool GM plant.

Hmmm... who wins.

ignorant wrote:

Type Q wrote: Business is all about PEOPLE.

incorrect. business is all about the product. Good product can make up for any other deficiencies. product 1st always

And you produce a product or service because there are people who will use it and pay for it. If there is no human need or want being fulfilled, there is not a viable business.

Type Q wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Type Q wrote: Business is all about PEOPLE.

incorrect. business is all about the product. Good product can make up for any other deficiencies. product 1st always

And you produce a product or service because there are people who will use it and pay for it. If there is no human need or want being fulfilled, there is not a viable business.

4 p's of marketing. implicit to having the right product. It's about the product. Always about the product.

okay, I may as well keep it going.

1. That 5 door is the Toyota VITZ, not available in US.
2. Matrix is actually the 5 door Corolla.
3. Curb weights i used were from the manufacturers websites.

GM needs to be very careful about the Volt hype. Remember the Fiero? The great let down? Same with the Delorean. The DMC was hyped to be a super car at a budget price. Then the auto mags got the car to test drive and said, well, it handles OK, but has all the acceleration of a Pinto. The car died and JD went into the snow business. If GM hypes the Volt and it turns out to be a short instead, that's it.

ignorant wrote:

Type Q wrote: Business is all about PEOPLE.

incorrect. business is all about the product. Good product can make up for any other deficiencies. product 1st always

You're both wrong.

Business is all about MONEY. You make MONEY by producing a product (or service) that you can convince people is worth more than the money they'll trade you to take posession of it (and costs less than the investment it would take them to replicate it). You continue to make money, by keeping those people happy, or at the very least, not pissing them off.

Successfull businesses are those that have a sustainable income.

ReverendDexter wrote:

ignorant wrote:

Type Q wrote: Business is all about PEOPLE.

incorrect. business is all about the product. Good product can make up for any other deficiencies. product 1st always

You're both wrong. Business is all about MONEY. You make MONEY by producing a product (or service) that you can convince people is worth more than the money they'll trade you to take posession of it (and costs less than the investment it would take them to replicate it). You continue to make money, by keeping those people happy, or at the very least, not pissing them off. Successfull businesses are those that have a sustainable income.

without product how do you make money? with a good product, all else follows. Saying that business is about money is like saying breathing is about air. Its a given and provides no insight into the actual processes required.

Maroon92....as you read ths, your "local" Toyota dealer should be receiving the first shipments of the '09 5 door Yaris. We didn't get this model, until now, even tho it was available in Canada.

Nashco wrote: Yeah, but you act as though GM isn't doing any retooling, instead they're hoping that a one shot wonder solves their problems. That's why I don't get the comparison, because GM is ALSO retooling for small cars in addition to their efforts with the Volt: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/business/22auto.html?ref=business

Of the $500 million that G.M. is investing in the United States so it can build the Cruze, $350 million will be spent retooling the Lordstown plant, which opened 42 years ago and is the highest-volume plant in the world with one assembly line.

Bryce

Jeez, I hope Chevy isn't betting the farm on the Cruze. I mean, all they will offer it in is sedan and perhaps coupe versions. I can't see it going head to head with Civic and Corolla in 2 years, when the new versions of those cars come out. No hatch version either, which I totally do not understand. Why is nobody coming out with hatchbacks?

To me, that sounds like a renamed Cobalt, which was a fine car but never sold very well.

Maybe it's too late. Flaming washer fluid anyone?

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa080829_wz_gmrecall.23decbb7.html

WASHINGTON — General Motors is recalling 944,000 vehicles because of a problem with the windshield wiper fluid system that could lead to a fire.

The recall involves more than 850,000 sport utility vehicles, trucks and passenger cars in the U.S. and nearly 100,000 vehicles in Canada, Mexico and the Middle East.

It involves the 2008 Buick Enclave, 2006-2008 Buick Lucerne, 2006-2008 Cadillac DTS, versions of the 2007-2008 Cadillac Escalade, 2007-2008 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Tahoe and Suburban, 2007-2008 GMC Acadia, Sierra, Yukon and Yukon XL, 2006-2008 Hummer H2 and 2007-2008 Saturn Outlook.

The recall involves vehicles with a heated washer fluid system. A short circuit in the system could cause electrical features to malfunction. There have been nine reports of fires, but no accidents or injuries.

maroon92 wrote: 3. Curb weights i used were from the manufacturers websites.

Nope you used GVW, not curb weight, big difference

From the Smart website

ECE weight without driver 1,808 lbs (cabriolet: 1,852 lbs) ECE Payload 507 lbs (cabriolet: 463 lbs) ECE permissible maximum weight 2,315 lbs

http://www.smartusa.com/smart-car-technical-specifications.aspx

Wally wrote: Maybe it's too late. Flaming washer fluid anyone?

That would be sort of cool. Especially if I could send it out the back washer nozzles on my Focus or my wife's Mazda 6 wagon. I suspect it would be a fairly effective tailgater deterrent.

without product how do you make money? with a good product, all else follows. Saying that business is about money is like saying breathing is about air. Its a given and provides no insight into the actual processes required.

EDIT: The above was supposed to be a quote I had edited down for size... I guess I fail at the interwebs... :eyeroll:

You're under the assumption that you need a good product (or service). You don't. You just need to convince people that your product is good (or at least better than the other guys' if you can convince them that your segment of product or service is necessary). You can have the greatest product in the world, but if word on the street is that it's crap, you WILL fail.

And sometimes the obvious is what's escaping people. I see this all the time in I.T. - people are convinced they need a computer to accomplish a task when they could do it faster, cheaper, and more efficiently by just using a piece of paper and a pencil. Taking a step back to the basics has a magic way of alleviating a good number of problems.

ignorant wrote: without product how do you make money?

Patent abuse / trolling.